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Author Topic: [GOBLIN] Discussion and Suggestions (In development)  (Read 10934 times)

Teneb

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Re: [GOBLIN] Discussion and Suggestions (Planning Stage)
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2013, 08:49:13 pm »

I like those ideas (except the inter-caste hate, I don't think that's possible. At least not without DFHack scripts). I was already planning on including alchemy and "potion"-induced mutations, but I guess now I'll ramp it up so that the civ is based around that. Multiple litters are already in, although I haven't decided on max age. I'll look at the goblin tinker. I've been thinking of not allowing them armour (or just really bad armour), thoughts on that?
Not allowing armor to who\what sorry?
Goblins as a whole.

As in: they can't make them. Maybe they can find them, but not make them. At least through normal means.
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SuicideRey

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Re: [GOBLIN] Discussion and Suggestions (Planning Stage)
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2013, 08:58:07 pm »

I like those ideas (except the inter-caste hate, I don't think that's possible. At least not without DFHack scripts). I was already planning on including alchemy and "potion"-induced mutations, but I guess now I'll ramp it up so that the civ is based around that. Multiple litters are already in, although I haven't decided on max age. I'll look at the goblin tinker. I've been thinking of not allowing them armour (or just really bad armour), thoughts on that?
Not allowing armor to who\what sorry?
Goblins as a whole.

As in: they can't make them. Maybe they can find them, but not make them. At least through normal means.
I think they should at least be able to make lower iron grade armor... Aka, rusty armor.If not well then maybe make a similiar system to that of orc prisoners? Send some gobbos into the the world and have a chance of them capturing prisoners( a very low one for that matter) and if lets say they captrued a gnome make him do the smithing for them?
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 09:22:56 pm by SuicideRey »
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Meph

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Re: [GOBLIN] Discussion and Suggestions (Planning Stage)
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2013, 10:04:14 pm »

I would definitely approve of a "kidnap" workshop. You send a goblin to it, run a reaction "try to kidnap a ..." and you have a chance to get a tool called "iron cage containing ... prisoner". You then need these tools for either workshops or reagents. For example 3 dwarven prisoners and then you can build a dwarven forge. That would fit the description the DF goblins have. The negative side of the reaction could be that the goblin dies (boiling rock kills him) or that he even triggers a siege or ambush (dfhacks force siege), which is the same system I use in the embassy.

EDIT: And I dont know why, but: Goblin Ninjas.

[ITEM_AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_SHURIKEN]
[NAME:shuriken:shurikens]
[CLASS:SHURIKEN]
[SIZE:50]
[ATTACK:EDGE:200:2000:slash:slashes:NO_SUB:1000]

Edit2: And of course, the suicide goblin. Think moggs from Magic the Gathering, or banelings from starcraft... "Goblin Sapper", a caste that you transform/equip a goblin to, he runs to the enemy, enters melee and BOOM goes the dynamite.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 11:10:21 pm by Meph »
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mavj96

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Re: [GOBLIN] Discussion and Suggestions (Planning Stage)
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2013, 03:03:38 pm »

I still say resilient to stress but extremely quick to anger. So no melancholy/insane but berserk.
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smakemupagus

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Re: [GOBLIN] Discussion and Suggestions (Planning Stage)
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2013, 05:13:55 pm »

Edit2: And of course, the suicide goblin. Think moggs from Magic the Gathering, or banelings from starcraft... "Goblin Sapper", a caste that you transform/equip a goblin to, he runs to the enemy, enters melee and BOOM goes the dynamite.

Ah, yes.  Life is cheap among the goblins.

feel free to borrow or look at the Orc Fortress
Spoiler: sapper's satchel (click to show/hide)
for ideas if you like

Meph

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Re: [GOBLIN] Discussion and Suggestions (Planning Stage)
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2013, 06:28:29 pm »



Take it or leave it. :) You can control the size with the number in the last //, currently s600, means 600 pixel.
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Teneb

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Re: [GOBLIN] Discussion and Suggestions (Planning Stage)
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2013, 06:34:20 pm »

Taken. Especially since I am a disaster when it comes to pictures.

Added some more castes to the first page. Will finish them and go for the reactions.
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Meph

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Re: [GOBLIN] Discussion and Suggestions (Planning Stage)
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2013, 07:43:48 pm »

Good. I didnt know of that fits your image of the goblins you want to make, so I wasnt sure.
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fasquardon

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Re: [GOBLIN] Discussion and Suggestions (Planning Stage)
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2013, 03:25:09 pm »

I considered doing one of these myself, here are the ideas I was playing around with (warning - some of these may not be possible to mod in):

*No special metals, and no mass production for materials above iron level - the idea being to make steel feel more special to gobbos.

*More limited use of stone, gems and glass - Masterwork Dwarfs can make all sorts of stuff from rock, gems and glass, which makes the game easier as it means you can do more with the most common resources in the game - by making the goblins more like vanilla Dwarfs in this respect, it challenges the player.

*More limited farming - I wasn't sure how, but I was considering depriving goblins of underground crops or depriving them of farming entirely.  Certainly, I was thinking goblins would lack treefarming.

*Limiting trade - for example, by making it likely they would end up at war with every non-goblin civ, or just making their social skills really bad.

*Clay being an important resource for the goblins, much like it is for the kobolds.

*Making goblins both booze dependent and obligate carnivores.

*Baby-snatching being a major part of the economy - gobbos being weak in combat and slow learners, the gobbos send out baby snatchers to get Dwarf, Elf, Human, Kobold and Orc babies, all of which would be represented in game by goblin "castes" that cannot breed.

*Fast breeding - 'cuz gobbos should be fairly disposable.

*Cattle raiding!  Send out expeditions to steal the herd-beasts of your enemies!  Would mean that the goblins would have access to all the special domestic animals as well.

*Stolen technology - the gobbos would have access to many of the Orc, Kobold and Dwarf buildings (plus a few others to represent the other races) with an emphasis on low tech.  All of these stolen buildings needing blueprints to build.  The reactions would be slightly different, to reflect the goblins lack of skill with the foreign technology.

*Demons, necromancers and Uruk Warlords - one of the things I wanted to do was make it likely that your goblins would end up being ruled by some grumpy and terrible creature.  Either these would be done as a rare caste or as a very expensive pet that could be brought along.  These creatures would have very high social skills to make them likely to be elected mayor, and if possible, made to make them likely to become king.

*Goblin Magic - I was thinking of ideas based around a demon worship theme for this.  Blood sacrifice, wicked spells and possibly a link to the nobility (nobles being appointed by the demon-priests, say).

*Slaves - I wanted to have slaves that would be a bit like concubines, only instead of breeding, they would be goblins that could be bought at embark and could be bought from the caravan and would either labour as hauler/peasants or would be war trained (possibly even armoured) and used as disposable cannon fodder.

For example, one of the ideas I had for a goblin embark would be the "warband", which would be 7 goblins, 7 cheap axes and a slave army or war trained slave goblins.  Then the player could use "embark anywhere" to use this army to invade dark towers and established sites in order to take kill the inhabitants and take their stuff...

The slave idea may not pass muster with Toady though.

*Slave warparties - like Orc raids, the goblins could send out parties to loot the neighbours.  But for the goblins, these raiding parties would require using the slaves of the fortress - basically sending out a bunch of slaves with cheap iron gear to steal resources/technology/babies, if the slaves fail, they either die or run away, and the player loses the invested resources, if they succeed, they are allowed to keep their gear and join goblin society as free goblins (you still lose the invested resources, since the freed slaves go off to found their own fortresses or join other fortresses, but you get booty in return).  For this system, I was thinking there'd be a "slave raider equipping" task, where a goblin would take a slave to the workshop, "kill" the slave, consume the armour and weapons and produce a statue like Orc Fortress migrants.  Then the "send raid" task would consume say "10 equipped slaves", which would have a random chance of producing booty.

*Typing this all out gives me an idea for another goblin caste - "freedgob", which would be a normal goblin, but they would have say +5 to a selection of military skills.  It would add some flavour to embarks and migration waves.

*Other potential goblin caste names - bugbears, hobgoblins, snaga, bogrins, gobbers.

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Meph

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Re: [GOBLIN] Discussion and Suggestions (Planning Stage)
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2013, 03:40:34 pm »

I really like those:
Quote
*Cattle raiding!  Send out expeditions to steal the herd-beasts of your enemies!  Would mean that the goblins would have access to all the special domestic animals as well.

*Stolen technology - the gobbos would have access to many of the Orc, Kobold and Dwarf buildings (plus a few others to represent the other races) with an emphasis on low tech.  All of these stolen buildings needing blueprints to build.  The reactions would be slightly different, to reflect the goblins lack of skill with the foreign technology.

*Demons, necromancers and Uruk Warlords - one of the things I wanted to do was make it likely that your goblins would end up being ruled by some grumpy and terrible creature.  Either these would be done as a rare caste or as a very expensive pet that could be brought along.  These creatures would have very high social skills to make them likely to be elected mayor, and if possible, made to make them likely to become king.

Cattle raiding could be done by using a "raiding kit" or "kidnappers gear" or something pet, which would work the same way as dwarven toolkits. You take them at embark or buy those 1 point pets from the caravan, bring it to the workshop for cattle raiding, make a raid, and have a chance to transform the raiding kit into a cow. Or goat, or whatever.

Stolen tech I did mention before, tools named "race name prisoner" or "caged race name", and using them as buildmats or tradegoods. A slave market or slave auction would fit the theme as well. I think as long as you dont keep them as actual creatures it should be ok. Its not like we dont have caged prisoners in vanilla anyway.

Demon/Necromancer mayor is an awesome idea, I didnt even think about that. Giving a rare caste with a different body natural skills and skill learn rates in social matters is a great way to do so. Goblin generals usually are some "something twisted into humanoid form" from my experience.
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fasquardon

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Re: [GOBLIN] Discussion and Suggestions (Planning Stage)
« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2013, 04:11:04 pm »

Stolen tech I did mention before, tools named "race name prisoner" or "caged race name", and using them as buildmats or tradegoods. A slave market or slave auction would fit the theme as well. I think as long as you dont keep them as actual creatures it should be ok. Its not like we dont have caged prisoners in vanilla anyway.

I had in mind to make slavery a much bigger part of my goblins than it is for Smake's orcs...  Actual pets or a caste like concubines that could wander around the fortress, possibly revolt (go berserk and try and kill your gobbos), do labours, be trained as warbeasts and suchlike.  Do you know where exactly the line is here?  For example, what about the semi-intelligent pets that vanilla DF goblins and Masterwork kobolds have (trolls and ogres)?

And maybe instead of using "toolkits" in the raids, the job would be "send troll out rustling", which when successful would turn a troll into a cow/goat/taiga sabrecat.

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Meph

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Re: [GOBLIN] Discussion and Suggestions (Planning Stage)
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2013, 04:36:39 pm »

I wouldnt want to lose a troll for a cow.

Quote
do labours
You do know that thats not possible, right? Even the dwarven pet caste I modded in only did labors after cheating with therapist. There is no way to assign labors to non-civ members.
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fasquardon

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Re: [GOBLIN] Discussion and Suggestions (Planning Stage)
« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2013, 05:19:10 pm »

You do know that thats not possible, right? Even the dwarven pet caste I modded in only did labors after cheating with therapist. There is no way to assign labors to non-civ members.

Hm, I embarked with concubines as the Orcs and they did fishing and farming for me...

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fasquardon

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Re: [GOBLIN] Discussion and Suggestions (Planning Stage)
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2013, 01:03:51 pm »

I had a couple more thoughts, though as far as I am aware, both of these would be impossible to mod into DF:

*Goblins are usually portrayed as being prone to infighting - I thought it might be cool if, instead of the Goblin king coming to rule your fortress, like he does with the dwarfs - he invades to crush the challenge to his authority - if he wins, your chief noble becomes the new king of all the goblins (or king of his own goblin kingdom).  The nearest way I can think of to simulate this would be for a special invader "Goblin King" civ whose sieges were triggered by the same criteria as the king's arrival.

*Tolkien Orcs/Goblins were portrayed as not being able to do much without their dark lord being active.  It would be cool to link Goblin high tech with their demonic overlord.  Only way I can think of to manage this is if the Demon mayor was an egg layer and laid eggs of "special magical material bar".  Like a demonic birfrost laying golden goose...

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MiguelMO

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Re: [GOBLIN] Discussion and Suggestions (Planning Stage)
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2013, 01:15:19 pm »

Sorry if it was suggested before, but it could be interesting to add some kind of workshop that would let you to prepare poisons from plants and to impregnate some weapons and arrows with it, getting a deadly arsenal without needing steel and other powerful metals.

Greetings
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