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[x2yzh9]

It's possible I guess.  He should have all the info he needs to fix the issue on his end regardless, however.

Ah, true that. Good to know!

[Chiefwaffles]

As far as I know, old limbo (the one that was fixed) was basically your character getting lost between server transitions. It usually lasted a very long time, if not forever. I don't remember the exact details, but I definitely recall losing some characters to limbo.
Limbo today is, as Deantwo and I said, the server not responding for some reason. Usually it's due to servers as a whole being down, or the particular server being locked in debug mode, or rarely just locked for an unknown reason.

[Shadowlord]

Eh, I experienced both when I was playing. Transitions taking a long time was fixed fairly early but servers going on vacation was a problem the entire time I was playing (multiple years!), although it was more common some months than others.

[xaritscin]

dont know how many people is still playing this, i understand the reasons. just wanted to bump it out because Haxus is implementing a new designer, different from the first attempt at a new designer, is still in alpha but people is already giving it a shot, it allows to import from Blender from what i've heard. gonna see how it pans out in the end.

[Deantwo]

I'll just leave this here, for those of you interested.
Here: hazeron.com/wiki/Spacecraft_Update

The page is very short at present, but I will hopefully be writing more on it soon. The page has links to all the current update forum threads so you guys don't have to dig through the forum.

For those of you that wanna try it, you can just download the launcher. Trying the new designer doesn't require a subscription and it runs offline.
The designer is still in the alpha stage, so there are plenty of features missing, not to mention that the designs can't actually be used in the game yet. Just be sure to read some of all the update threads to get a general idea about how to get started, since there has not been written any tutorials yet.

[ollobrains]

looks interesting

[Chiefwaffles]

Eh.
I personally really don't like the new direction of Hazeron. Probably said that before, but the ship designer update serves as a great example of my opinion.

The "old way" of designing ships - tile by tile - definitely isn't perfect. But it works. Relatively-nice looking ships are pretty easy to make with a modicum of effort, and better looking ships can be achieved with further effort and skill. The paper-thin walls and doors were probably the worst part, but a newbie could make an okay-looking ship and a pro can make some pretty awesome designs.
But enter the new designer, essentially a glorified 3D modelling program made just to design ships. I'm sure the designer itself works at what it intends to accomplish, but just consider the consequences of moving from the easy tile-painting method used to the new 3D modelling method.

Now you have to be a 3D modeler that one needs to use if they want to design their own ships. And 3D modelling programs are not known for being easy-to-use. Even if Haxus' designer is amazingly usable compared to current 3D modelling software, it still will be much harder than tile painting. Newbies can either choose to live with blobs resembling ships that require much more effort than their superior tile designer counterparts, they can invest extreme amounts of time and effort learning how to use a 3D modelling program in order to design okay-looking ships, or they can skip the designer - a core component of Hazeron - and use premade designs.

None of these solutions truly work. The entry-level blobs would require more effort to make than the entry-level designer ships for a worse-looking result. Spending tons of time learning how to properly use the designer may bring you up to an "okay" skill level where with sizeable effort you can replicate ships of similar quality to ones made by much less experienced people in the tile designer. Then there's the premade ship option. Hazeron's number one concept is player-generated content, is it not? The vision is to have player empires providing the backdrop for the adventurers to have fun and quest, Haxus is planning on allowing players to design vehicles and items for their empire, you can design buildings and ships. But using premade ships completely eliminates this aspect of the game.

Sure, the best designs of the 3D modeler designer will almost definitely be far superior than the best designs of the tile designer. But that won't matter to 99% of players - they'll continue using their own lesser designs or premade designs while the extremely small amount of people who spent extreme amounts of time simply practicing in the designer and the professional 3D Modelers use their own nice-looking ships.

[Deantwo]

I have, and still do to a degree, share your worry. But thinking of the new designer as the foundation rather than the end all, makes me feel better.
For example, it would be pretty easy to implement a "tile painting" designer that then automatically convert it to the new design type.

In short, making it newbie friendly is a possibility. So I look forward to see where this will go.

Haxus is also implementing a public design library in-game, so we can share designs easier without losing the architect name. I think this will lead to more people sharing their designs, at least I will.

[Moghjubar]

Figure may as well bump this with new info: http://hazeron.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=9105

Haxus has released a recruit-a-friend program, for anyone wanting to bring someone to try Hazeron.

If anyone wants one, post here; several people have them to give.  You can check out the few building changes and try the new editor (ships are spawnable in game now, but its not quite yet complete) for 15 days with the friend code.

[Chiefwaffles]

So.
Tech Levels are gone.

It's largely just been replaced by quality. So instead of having to have ____ TL to make something, you have to have _____ quality. Something like that.
There's also a new "Patent" mechanic where you have to make prototypes before being able to make new items (where it used to be you could make everything; you just had to have the right TL first).

It's a bit more complicated than that but I'll leave that to people to read it themselves or for someone else to explain it better than I can.

[Deantwo]

So.
Tech Levels are gone.

Party time!

Join us on the Hazeron Discord!
https://discord.gg/CPrpDzJ

[Paul]

I fail to see how that's better. Now instead of 32 levels, you have 255 levels. And instead of it being based on building, it's based on every single individual product the buildings produce.

The only improvement really is that it gets rid of the RNG factor, so huge empires don't have the advantage in just getting to the TL - but you still need to find the high quality materials in the first place, which requires a big empire.

The end result will still be maxed out empires after a year or so, and people trading tech around and nobody bothering to develop it themselves after everyone already has max tech.

[Chiefwaffles]

For me it seems to mostly get rid of the tech level grind. Now instead of just waiting for TL to go up, you actively find better resources for QL.
I mean, that’s not great but much better than TL. And fixing this would require a fundamental change in city building/resource mechanics.

[etgfrog]

I see the astroturfer is still around

[Paul]

For me it seems to mostly get rid of the tech level grind. Now instead of just waiting for TL to go up, you actively find better resources for QL.
I mean, that’s not great but much better than TL. And fixing this would require a fundamental change in city building/resource mechanics.

You always had to actively find better resources for QL, that hasn't changed. You still have the tech level grind too - you just have to research each individual product and resource instead of a broad TL for a specific building.

The only real changes I see are:

A: No more creating tech disks for spreading tech anymore. So you don't need to bring a ton of TL32 disks with you to make new cities, as each building in the city gets the tech instead of it being per-building. This also means that there is greatly reduced reason for money after you unlock the max tech level, since there isn't research cost anymore as you don't have to constantly produce TL32 disks.

B: No more chance based raising. This means no more spamming a couple hundred universities to quickly get TL32. I'm guilty of that one in the past, as are all the big empires in the game, haha. With a bunch of big cities of nothing but universities and a single building in each that you're teching up cranking out disks you can get up to TL32 surprisingly fast. I think I got there in a week when I did it before. Now it's a fixed timer and a much longer time sink.

I would argue that A is good, despite making money nigh worthless later on (unless there's another big money sink that he's added that I'm unaware of), just because trying to get enough disks to actually tech up your buildings before your tech level goes up and you have to start all over was an annoyance. B, however, only matters short term - i's still a fixed goal that everyone will eventually attain, so long-term it doesn't fix anything. It just means empires that aren't huge can keep apace with the big ones tech-wise, yet you still have to search far and wide to actually find the quality materials. And if you're already behind you have to trade for the tech, as no amount of spamming research will catch you up.

-edit- Oh, and apparently he lowered the effect that QL/TL has on stuff. So instead of a huge boost, getting high QL/TL isn't that big. This is probably a good thing too, as it means the high tech isn't quite as overpowered - but I don't know how much of a difference it will make.