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[Lenglon]

...
PM sent to LNCP
instant-answer from LNCP

ok, when I die, my role will flip.
meaning ZU's lack of a roleflip is significant in some way.

[notquitethere]

[Just a head's up: I won't be around much this weekend. Going to stay with some friends down on the coast.]

I'd say we're doing a good job so far.

Shakerag— you weren't always a maid, were you? Was your dead husband particularly rich, a man of note perhaps?

I'm concerned about being night killed, so I'll probably reveal details before the end of the day.

What happened in regards to this?

I didn't have time at the end of the last day to say what I could have said. Now certain people are back in the game I'll be able to make enquiries before revealing all that I know.

Leafsnail— I'm not a mother or a crone, and so I would most fall into the 'maiden' category. I'm waiting to hear back from LNCP on how old I am.

Toonyman— that's quite a dramatic reveal. Why do you think, as Viscount, you're above death-shaman suspicion?

Solifuge— Were you raised in a monastery? Be honest here, look what happened when Dariush lied to me.

Toaster— Why weren't you voting for the outed Witch at the end of Day 2?

[Jim Groovester]

Votecount:

IronyOwl	- 0 -
Hapah	- 1 -	Shakerag
Leafsnail	- 0 -
Lenglon	- 0 -
notquitethere	- 0 -
Solifuge	- 0 -
birdy51	- 0 -
Toaster	- 2 -	Lenglon, ToonyMan
Toonyman	- 1 -	Leafsnail
Shakerag	- 0 -
-
Not Voting	- 6 -	birdy51, Hapah, Solifuge, Toaster, notquitethere, IronyOwl
No Lynch	- 0 -
-
Extend	- 0 -
Shorten	- 0 -

The Day will end Tuesday, the 3rd of September, 8PM GMT.

Just so everyone knows, I'm not going to be here from the 4th to the 6th of September (all of wed-fri, that is) for academic reasons. Sorry, all; Jim will hopefully take over normal service during that time.

Worry not, players, the co-mod is here!

[ToonyMan]

Toonyman— that's quite a dramatic reveal. Why do you think, as Viscount, you're above death-shaman suspicion?

I'm not really, but if it garners me protection from the mafia then I can only see it as a bonus.  And if I were to die in some way I'd still win with the town.

To add to my attitude Day 2.  I didn't actively attack or defend Dariush because I wanted to see what he'd do and his death I'm indifferent to.  I was initially going to out him on the basis the witch would want to silence me, but
1.  They don't want me to die
2.  The previous two games the witches didn't have night-kills anyway

Also, I'm married and don't have kids to look after right now so I'm neither a maiden or mother.  Not sure if I'm old enough to be a crone.

@Toaster:
The reason I highly suspect you is I was also looking for players who were acting oddly cooperative with me (and/or Dariush) Day 2, and you certainly hit the bill for me here in this post.

[Leafsnail]

Well, it so happens the Witch Maiden (Dariush) contacted me Night 1 and told me they thought I was their Death Shaman.

In any case, I kept my mouth shut Day 2 because gathering as much info as possible from Dariush would be helpful (we got a little quicktopic to talk with, though he's dead now so nuts to that) to pin-together who the other witches are and what not.  See, the thing is, the witches don't want to see me dead, since even though I'm town they suspect I could be their DS and want to keep me nice and alive and happy.  If they have a convert like you keep insistently mentioning then yeah, I'm probably a witch in your eyes, but that'll only help the town since the mafia are gonna have to gamble their odds on either trying to ignore me or bandwagon me with whoever's left in their posse (unfortunately Dariush never spilled the beans on his partners, of course).

So you're saying you knew Dariush was a witch for the entirety of yesterday?  Did Dariush explain why he was so sure you were the Death Shaman?  I'm not convinced he'd reveal himself and information that could incriminate his partners unless he was really sure you were the Death Shaman.  You actually voted against the Tiruin lynch, so it can't have been that which convinced him.

Also, the witches wincon is supposedly to keep Tiruin dead and the Death Shaman alive.  They claim to have no night-kill.  Since I lost my contact might as well say everything!  If anybody needs clarification ask.

Shouldn't they have won after Tiruin was lynched then?  I guess they could require the permanent death of Tiruin, but that would imply that either Tiruin is not permadead now or that ZU was the Death Shaman.

I also don't get why Dariush would have opposed the Tiruin lynch day one, if this was the case.

I'm a bit worried that Zombie Urist could be our Death Shaman, because of the lack of role-flip.

That's not unlikely.

LNCP: If someone were to win and leave the game, would they roleflip?

Dariush also seems to claim they'd leave peacefully after getting their wincon, but I have to lay suspicion on that.  It would be bizarre for the town and mafia to be able to win together after all.

Considering the town wincon, if the witches left peacefully that would actually be a town loss.

Try checking how old you are with LNCP, that should be common knowledge!

[Hapah]

Toony

Lots of interesting stuff!

Ohhh, I like it! Comments/questions on a few things:

Well, it so happens the Witch Maiden (Dariush) contacted me Night 1 and told me they thought I was their Death Shaman.

Did he just up and say that he was a Witch, or did you have to drag it out of him?

I'm a bit worried that Zombie Urist could be our Death Shaman, because of the lack of role-flip.

It could be. However, it's also worth noting that ZU died peacefully (which is probably magic?) and not in front on the Inquisitor; which could explain it as well. Apparently it's not so easy to tell if someone is a Witch or a Shaman: Looks like the Inquisitor had to root around in their guts to find out!

[lordnincompoop]

LNCP: If someone were to win and leave the game, would they roleflip?

Yes.

[Toaster]

Lenglon:

Toaster:

Toaster: Why are you so focused on lynching the protect/revive third party that you're letting your scumhunting drop?

Yes, you've been asked this before, but your answers have always been in the context of a generic third-party. You have consistently been advocating a third-party policy lynch, with no consideration for what kind of third party they are. I want an answer that specifically either shows how a protect/revive third party is anti-town, or shows how a protect/revive third party is no different from a generic third-party.
additionally, you've been keeping your questions, reasoning, and opinions rather slippery, shifting them as your target shifts and seemingly unrelated to their actions and answers, but more in relation to public opinion of your target. why?
NQT: do you have any inspection results to ask us about?

Lenglon, this simply isn't based in reality.  Did you notice that I never voted Tiruin throughout D2?  Griffinpup was consistently not participating at all, beyond mere active lurking.  I see this as scum trying to hide while the game moves on without him, and I wasn't about to let it stand.

Still, look at Tiruin's stated goals versus the town win con.  Did you notice that they're not at all similar.  She wants to keep the Death Shaman and herself alive.  Not keep townies alive, not get rid of witches.  It's quite simple- she may SAY she's pro-town, but that simply isn't true.  Yes, those stated goes are not anti-town, but "not anti-town" does not mean "pro-town."  If you need more evidence, check this post.

I don't agree at all with your assessment.  I don't really care what others are doing, inasmuch they're not being scummy.


Leafsnail:  I suppose mother.  Farmers bringing life from the earth has a whole motherhood element, I'd say.

Toaster— Why weren't you voting for the outed Witch at the end of Day 2?

Because I was voting for Griffinpup- see above for why.

What's your take on the others not voting for Dariush?


Toony:

@Toaster:
The reason I highly suspect you is I was also looking for players who were acting oddly cooperative with me (and/or Dariush) Day 2, and you certainly hit the bill for me here in this post.

Okay, I'll bite- how I am being cooperative with either of you there in a suspicious manner (or at all with Dariush)?

Also, if the witches have no NK, who killed Tiruin and ZU?


Hapah:  I realize you can't account for Pup's play, but I can still vote you over it... especially since you're continuing Pup's tradition of not actually suspecting anyone.

[Lenglon]

Lenglon:

Toaster:

Toaster: Why are you so focused on lynching the protect/revive third party that you're letting your scumhunting drop?

Yes, you've been asked this before, but your answers have always been in the context of a generic third-party. You have consistently been advocating a third-party policy lynch, with no consideration for what kind of third party they are. I want an answer that specifically either shows how a protect/revive third party is anti-town, or shows how a protect/revive third party is no different from a generic third-party.
additionally, you've been keeping your questions, reasoning, and opinions rather slippery, shifting them as your target shifts and seemingly unrelated to their actions and answers, but more in relation to public opinion of your target. why?
NQT: do you have any inspection results to ask us about?

Lenglon, this simply isn't based in reality.  Did you notice that I never voted Tiruin throughout D2?  Griffinpup was consistently not participating at all, beyond mere active lurking.  I see this as scum trying to hide while the game moves on without him, and I wasn't about to let it stand.

Still, look at Tiruin's stated goals versus the town win con.  Did you notice that they're not at all similar.  She wants to keep the Death Shaman and herself alive.  Not keep townies alive, not get rid of witches.  It's quite simple- she may SAY she's pro-town, but that simply isn't true.  Yes, those stated goes are not anti-town, but "not anti-town" does not mean "pro-town."  If you need more evidence, check this post.

I don't agree at all with your assessment.  I don't really care what others are doing, inasmuch they're not being scummy.

...
1 moment, reviewing, but I may have completely misstated things.
Unvote
low on time, but I need to review. somehow I mixed up the actions of Dariush, Vector, and Toaster, back during day 1.
Ottofar: because I'm tired of being berated for not having my vote on someone, and he didn't make an impression on me day 2.
that long night really is throwing me off, my memory is a lil fuzzy right now apparently. hence my need to review.

[ToonyMan]

@Leafsnail:

Well, it so happens the Witch Maiden (Dariush) contacted me Night 1 and told me they thought I was their Death Shaman.

In any case, I kept my mouth shut Day 2 because gathering as much info as possible from Dariush would be helpful (we got a little quicktopic to talk with, though he's dead now so nuts to that) to pin-together who the other witches are and what not.  See, the thing is, the witches don't want to see me dead, since even though I'm town they suspect I could be their DS and want to keep me nice and alive and happy.  If they have a convert like you keep insistently mentioning then yeah, I'm probably a witch in your eyes, but that'll only help the town since the mafia are gonna have to gamble their odds on either trying to ignore me or bandwagon me with whoever's left in their posse (unfortunately Dariush never spilled the beans on his partners, of course).

So you're saying you knew Dariush was a witch for the entirety of yesterday?

Yes.

Did Dariush explain why he was so sure you were the Death Shaman?  I'm not convinced he'd reveal himself and information that could incriminate his partners unless he was really sure you were the Death Shaman.  You actually voted against the Tiruin lynch, so it can't have been that which convinced him.

Because my flavor for my character is "not fond of hunting witches" and Tiruin cast a ward on me Day 1.  He also found my defense of NQT as lackluster.

To contact me Dariush had to reveal his role, but my role remained hidden from him in the quicktopic.

Also, the witches wincon is supposedly to keep Tiruin dead and the Death Shaman alive.  They claim to have no night-kill.  Since I lost my contact might as well say everything!  If anybody needs clarification ask.

Shouldn't they have won after Tiruin was lynched then?  I guess they could require the permanent death of Tiruin, but that would imply that either Tiruin is not permadead now or that ZU was the Death Shaman.

Let me clarify:
"Our full wincon is making him (the Death Shaman) 'alive and unable to die' and Tiruin (the Life Shaman) 'dead and unable to resurrect'."

I also don't get why Dariush would have opposed the Tiruin lynch day one, if this was the case.

Good scum play?

Dariush also seems to claim they'd leave peacefully after getting their wincon, but I have to lay suspicion on that.  It would be bizarre for the town and mafia to be able to win together after all.

Considering the town wincon, if the witches left peacefully that would actually be a town loss.

Yeah exactly.

Try checking how old you are with LNCP, that should be common knowledge!

Yeah I'm sending a PM.  I could also probably deduce my age from wikipedia but whatever...


@Hapah:

Well, it so happens the Witch Maiden (Dariush) contacted me Night 1 and told me they thought I was their Death Shaman.

Did he just up and say that he was a Witch, or did you have to drag it out of him?

He was forced to reveal it to contact me.  I could have declined his contact by the way, but I was wanted to know what he had to say.  If I did decline him I would still know he was a Witch Maiden, but nothing else.

I'm a bit worried that Zombie Urist could be our Death Shaman, because of the lack of role-flip.

It could be. However, it's also worth noting that ZU died peacefully (which is probably magic?) and not in front on the Inquisitor; which could explain it as well. Apparently it's not so easy to tell if someone is a Witch or a Shaman: Looks like the Inquisitor had to root around in their guts to find out!

That sounds right.


@Toaster:

Toony:

@Toaster:
The reason I highly suspect you is I was also looking for players who were acting oddly cooperative with me (and/or Dariush) Day 2, and you certainly hit the bill for me here in this post.

Okay, I'll bite- how I am being cooperative with either of you there in a suspicious manner (or at all with Dariush)?

Because I knew Dariush was a witch yesterday and you were doing the same thing I was, that is, ignoring the crux of NQT's case against Dariush.  I don't see that at a coincidence.  Also, trying to lynch Tiruin constantly even though you gave up voting them.

Also, if the witches have no NK, who killed Tiruin and ZU?

I can't say I entirely trust their word.  So if anybody killed Tiruin it was the witches.  Don't know about ZU, might be some weird ability they have being the Death Shaman and all.  Either way somebody needs to revive them, unfortunately I don't have such capabilities.

[ToonyMan]

I think Tiruin being revealed Day 1 was a really huge mistake in this game.

[Leafsnail]

Yeah Tiruin should not have claimed.

I find that scum win condition very plausible.  Further, I'm going to hazard a guess that the scum have a revival ability (to stop a random Death Shaman lynch from finishing them), and that's what happened to Tiruin yesterday.  Reviving Tiruin would've gone against that wincon, but they probably figured he'd die again anyway and doing so would confuse the town.

So, if we take two claimed wincons as true:
- Life Shaman: Life Shaman alive, Death Shaman Alive
- Witch: Life Shaman dead, Death Shaman Alive

Now, I'm going to take a guess at the Death Shaman's:
- Death Shaman (speculation): Life Shaman dead, Death Shaman dead

This might mean that what the town wants (although this may not be required to win) is the last remaining possibility - Life Shaman alive, Death Shaman dead.

[Hapah]

I find that scum win condition very plausible.  Further, I'm going to hazard a guess that the scum have a revival ability (to stop a random Death Shaman lynch from finishing them), and that's what happened to Tiruin yesterday.  Reviving Tiruin would've gone against that wincon, but they probably figured he'd die again anyway and doing so would confuse the town.

Reviving Tir would go against their wincon twice, as they'd need to get Tir re-dead and hope hard that the Death Shaman doesn't get killed. It's also worth noting that Tir had a pretty good-sized post up within 20 minutes of being ressed (in the middle of a game day, no less). I'd wager Tir picked herself up, personally.

Toony: There's something that's bugging me which I hope you can shed a little light on. The information you've presented seems true, or at least too intricate to be entirely false. What I can't understand in why in the world a witch would ever use the ability you've described, in the manner you've described. Am I reading it correctly in that it revealed that he was definitely a Witch for the possibility of opening a chat? And why would a witch ever use it on the person they think is the Death Shaman, and then claim a wincon that probably runs counter in the same chat? Would you ever use the ability the way you claimed Dar did? Would anyone?

[Toaster]

Hapah:

Toony: There's something that's bugging me which I hope you can shed a little light on. The information you've presented seems true, or at least too intricate to be entirely false. What I can't understand in why in the world a witch would ever use the ability you've described, in the manner you've described. Am I reading it correctly in that it revealed that he was definitely a Witch for the possibility of opening a chat? And why would a witch ever use it on the person they think is the Death Shaman, and then claim a wincon that probably runs counter in the same chat? Would you ever use the ability the way you claimed Dar did? Would anyone?

No, sir, I don't buy it.  This could have easily been a vote, yet it wasn't.  You're still not making attacks and only putting up the appearance of hunting. 

[Tiruin]

This post is unrelated to the game or any of its mechanics.

I find that scum win condition very plausible.  Further, I'm going to hazard a guess that the scum have a revival ability (to stop a random Death Shaman lynch from finishing them), and that's what happened to Tiruin yesterday.  Reviving Tiruin would've gone against that wincon, but they probably figured he'd die again anyway and doing so would confuse the town.

She.