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[Tiruin]

Mmm, yeah. I got a bit upset..

Hmm. But yes, omission. I did that, right there.

As for why third parties are an auto-lynch: I agree, perhaps, that at another time we should argue out the theory.  But what I have been informed is that in these games, third parties are usually far more dangerous to the town than the witches are.  This points to the notion that you should hang.

...Err, ok? Given that I've no idea on the past games (meaning I'm not basing my anything on the roles or what happened then, like connections on setups and such), I digress.

Yes, you're right on the dangerous part, and yes, that sort of fear is what I've been pondering to myself about on whether to claim straight out or not to, given how many threats exist in my thoughts on the matter.

...Especially when you've got these abilities, the consequences are much more dire. Because given my abilities..I worry about what would happen later: this is where I'm omitting it. I'm lacking information right now.

...I still can't agree with the prior point of third-party = hang them at will.

However, that's your only basis, Vector? Perceived danger?

[Vector]

Given that that would be why we lynch the scum, yes, that's why I'm happy to hang you, too.

[Jim Groovester]

Mod: Day will end in..18 hours from now?]

17.5 hours now.

[Tiruin]

No, I mean by it being a generality. Anyone could use the reason of 'this is why we lynch scum'.

[Lenglon]

Vector: Is your wincon to eliminate all witches? if not, why shouldn't we lynch you, using the same arguments you're using against Tiruin? if so, why are you voting and pushing for a lynch that will not forward your wincon?
Ottofar: Assuming nobody shifts their vote between now and day end, and you have an opportunity to shift your vote to Tiruin at the last minute to force a tie and save your skin, will you do it?
Vector: Assuming that nobody shifts their vote between now and the last 5 minutes before day end, and then Ottofar shifts his vote to Tiruin, will you be available to unvote and avoid a tie?
Toaster: same question as I asked Vector.

[Vector]

It is indeed my wincon to eliminate all witches.

I think, simultaneously, that we absolutely must get more information on the third parties given what we know of previous situations.  I don't buy the idea that Tiruin couldn't figure out how to say "something worse is coming" in the middle of all that flavorclaiming and... just because we don't need to kill them to win, that DOESN'T mean that the third parties can't force us to lose.  And hell, the fact that she claims third party doesn't mean that she is third party.  All I know is that she had data the town obviously needed and wasn't forthcoming.  Then, when the pressure's on, it comes out.  Anti-town, to say the very least.  I don't think she has our best interests in mind.

I have no idea if I'd be able to unvote and avoid a tie or not.  I'm hoping I wouldn't be, because I'm hoping that tomorrow I'll spend far less time on the computer than I have for the past couple of days.

[Toaster]

Lenglon:

Vector: Assuming that nobody shifts their vote between now and the last 5 minutes before day end, and then Ottofar shifts his vote to Tiruin, will you be available to unvote and avoid a tie?
Toaster: same question as I asked Vector.

Early-mid afternoon tomorrow?  Uhh... can't promise that at all.  WOULD I do that?  Ottofar's a weak lynch.  He's certainly not contributing, but I'd far rather see admitted third parties hang.  I suppose in the "lynch good tie bad" tradition, I would.

Would YOU change your vote?

In any case, you should vote Tiruin now, because see below.


Tiruin:

..What do you see, anyway?

I actually do see something- a massive tone shift.

I try to get NQT lynched and you throw massive walls of text at me.  I try to get you lynched and suddenly you're much more chill.  I mean, hell, your first real post after I vote you, you barely mention me.  When you do get to me, your response is much milder in tone.  Instead of insulting me and trying to aggravate me, you post softhearted stuff like this:

It's like generalizing someone because they're different and/or have different priorities. I can get that people would be taking the safer side and grilling it as it may be an SK, but I'm looking into the essence of the argument there (or we're just hilariously misinterpretating each other. Humor in understanding, somehow.)

This is a major, major change.  It's a nasty associative tell toward NQT, but it's also useless without your flip, which I really want to see now.  Vector is correct- there's no reason you can't be a witch claiming third party.

[Tiruin]

You know, I'm pretty much annoyed at how you conclude very..capriciously. Coming off as more of a jerk now, thanks. >_>

I try to get NQT lynched and you throw massive walls of text at me.  I try to get you lynched and suddenly you're much more chill.  I mean, hell, your first real post after I vote you, you barely mention me.  When you do get to me, your response is much milder in tone.  Instead of insulting me and trying to aggravate me, you post softhearted stuff like this[...]

Massive walls of text which mattered. From where I see it, you're pushing no difference from me being chill, and me throwing walls.

Hey, you know what? I suppose you should take note. I'M STILL WORKING ON MY CASE ON YOU AND THE TIME LIMIT ISN'T MUCH TO WORK WITH HERE.

Why should I insult others and try to aggravate them? That's never in my nature. The one above? Poking at your stupid reason of LYNCH ALL THIRD-PARTIES TROLOLOL.

You want me to be mean? Fine. You want me to use spurious logic in trying to dissuade or prod at others? Fine. You want me to cue an emotional response because those things denote scumminess? Fine.

But this nerve you hit? It's my philosophy. I explain things so that we could get understanding from each other, and there you go off and push it as if I was trying to do something scummy. Unless you usually use emphasizing words like hell or italics, I'm pretty sure you're taunting me and using the subtle ploy of implying to hit me up.
~

In any case, you should vote Tiruin now, because see below.

Lenglon: What do you see in Toaster anyway? You noted my case on him before, what's your take on it?
~
The lack of time I'm having here isn't helping either. Now let me get back to typing this without any rudeness.


Tiruin casts her ward at ToonyMan. "Long live the Viscount."

[Jim Groovester]

Tiruin casts her ward at ToonyMan.

ToonyMan has been Warded!


Votecount:

Dariush	- 0 -
Deathsword	- 1 -	griffinpup
griffinpup	- 0 -
Leafsnail	- 0 -
Lenglon	- 0 -
notquitethere	- 2 -	Ottofar, Dariush
Okami No Rei	- 1 -	zombie urist
Ottofar	- 3 -	Lenglon, notquitethere, Leafsnail
Tiruin	- 2 -	Toaster, Vector
Toaster	- 1 -	Tiruin
ToonyMan	- 0 -
Vector	- 1 -	ToonyMan
zombie urist	- 1 -	Okami No Rei
-
Not Voting	- 1 -	Deathsword
No Lynch	- 0 -
-
Extend	- 0 -
Shorten	- 0 -

The Day will end in 15 hours, on the 14th of August, 8PM GMT.

4 votes required to Extend. 7 votes required to Shorten. 1 Extend left for the Day.

[Lenglon]

Lenglon: What do you see in Toaster anyway? You noted my case on him before, what's your take on it?
~
The lack of time I'm having here isn't helping either. Now let me get back to typing this without any rudeness.


Tiruin casts her ward at ToonyMan. "Long live the Viscount."

...
one moment, bringing up lurkertracker to review.

I strongly dislike the way he has been misrepresenting his interactions with NQT, both in what he says to NQT and how he represents what NQT said back to him. His case on NQT feels rather fake, and so does the way he drops it. I honestly don't see all that much scummy in his case on you Tiruin... up until his last post, which is really rather problematic.

Tiruin:

..What do you see, anyway?

I actually do see something- a massive tone shift.

I try to get NQT lynched and you throw massive walls of text at me.  I try to get you lynched and suddenly you're much more chill.  I mean, hell, your first real post after I vote you, you barely mention me.  When you do get to me, your response is much milder in tone.  Instead of insulting me and trying to aggravate me, you post softhearted stuff like this:

It's like generalizing someone because they're different and/or have different priorities. I can get that people would be taking the safer side and grilling it as it may be an SK, but I'm looking into the essence of the argument there (or we're just hilariously misinterpretating each other. Humor in understanding, somehow.)

This is a major, major change.  It's a nasty associative tell toward NQT, but it's also useless without your flip, which I really want to see now.  Vector is correct- there's no reason you can't be a witch claiming third party.

This entire section is a load of crap, plain and simple. I've seen your posting style, read your posts, and I'm having trouble seeing what on earth, the moon, mars, or anything at all under the sun this has to do with reality. however, I'm not all that certain of his scummyness. everyone is entitled to the occasional bout of crazy. I've had plenty of them myself. he's a little on the scummy side, but not all that bad.
right now the person I want to vote is Vector tbh, the way she is pushing for "lynch all third parties because they're third party" and completely ignoring the minor facts that:
A) you claimed on day 1, under only light pressure, meaning you claimed because you thought it was a good tactical decision.
B) eliminating third parties will not forward the wincon of eliminating all witches.
I'm concluding from the way she is mixing her case that she doesn't actually back her case, and when combined with her behavior towards ottofar and NQT, is probably scum. I also don't like the timing of her vote relative to toaster's vote. Toaster seems to at least honestly feel for his case regarding why all third-parties should be lynched, Vector's is tacked-on. I know a lot of you dislike emotional reads, but she feels like slime right now, and I do not like it. I don't want to have a used car salesman hanging around, and that's what she feels like right now.

the reason I'm not doing it right now is because of how close the deadline is, and I don't want a 3-way tie with 2 votes each on three different targets. if anyone else votes her, i'll shift my vote over, and I do plan on being available at the last second to un-tie the vote if absolutely necessary.
PPE:
Tiruin: What did you just do?
...
"Is... Is that a protect? Wards usually equate to some form of protection... why on Toonyman? well, he does stand out some... still... ok, she's clearly got power, and it's magical in nature, wards and all, hmmm, protects are non-hostile acts, and she had to use it publicly... why would a third-party have a protect? something's... something's off here. Last time out of town equated to third party, but I'm not a third party and I am out of town, so that's at least one pattern broken... would the pattern of magic equating to a hostile force also be broken? um... how would a protect... Forget it, time to make a move."
Vector: Why are you being so wishy-washy? The information we'll get from Tiruin's death is not all that high, and pushing for a third-party to be lynched is an easy and safe lynch for scum. seriously, what are you doing?
"I can make it before the deadline I think... right? still..."
Extend: what on earth just happened?

[Vector]

right now the person I want to vote is Vector tbh, the way she is pushing for "lynch all third parties because they're third party" and completely ignoring the minor facts that:
A) you claimed on day 1, under only light pressure, meaning you claimed because you thought it was a good tactical decision.
B) eliminating third parties will not forward the wincon of eliminating all witches.
I'm concluding from the way she is mixing her case that she doesn't actually back her case, and when combined with her behavior towards ottofar and NQT, is probably scum. I also don't like the timing of her vote relative to toaster's vote. Toaster seems to at least honestly feel for his case regarding why all third-parties should be lynched, Vector's is tacked-on. I know a lot of you dislike emotional reads, but she feels like slime right now, and I do not like it. I don't want to have a used car salesman hanging around, and that's what she feels like right now.

the reason I'm not doing it right now is because of how close the deadline is, and I don't want a 3-way tie with 2 votes each on three different targets. if anyone else votes her, i'll shift my vote over, and I do plan on being available at the last second to un-tie the vote if absolutely necessary.


Vector: Why are you being so wishy-washy? The information we'll get from Tiruin's death is not all that high, and pushing for a third-party to be lynched is an easy and safe lynch for scum. seriously, what are you doing?

Read my fucking "used car salesman posts" one more time and get it through your skull.  I've made myself clear.  "Information the town needs and which causes no personal damaged" is not to be disbursed as a tactical move.  If she intended to work with town, she should have worked with town.  She's demonstrated that that isn't her highest intention.

Eliminating third parties may make it so that we stay alive long enough to take out the witches.  There's a reason why they're third parties.  THEY'RE NOT ON OUR SIDE.  Safe and easy lynch?  Screw you.  "Oh sure, let's take her word on whether she's an SK or Exterminator-flavored or whatever sort of role!"  Don't automatically assume that she's a harmless survivor or positive role just because she has a protection spell.  You're playing in the big leagues now and it's time to step up to the plate.

You wanted to lynch Ottofar not because he was a witch, but because he was a lurker.  Remember that?  You tried to request the town into action?  Take your mealy-mouthed hypocrisy and stuff it.

[lordnincompoop]

Deathsword has been replaced by IronyOwl.

[Lenglon]

there is a significant difference between someone whose alignment is unknown and unknowable and someone whose alignment is claimed without counter-claim and with evidence to back it up. Ottofar still both had and has a decent chance of being a witch, and lurking in an inherently defensive move - something that aids scum.

Vector: why are you so mad?

Faith Irony: "Hi! nice to see you!"

[Tiruin]

...I will never know how you get my intentions right.

Anyway:

Tiruin: What did you just do?

A Guardian Angel is watching over him tonight. Anyone try to hit him or declaim my work as malevolent or WIFOM, you will burn.

I've been warning you people over and over and over again and again to not stoop into paranoia. I've seen..well, actually only two prominent people stake their votes on the metaknowledge (ahahaha that's just sick and I feel like a jerk for being like this and laughing at it but spiting that notion is really a bittersweet idea and I could word this better but I won't.)

Vector does it because of the third-party claim. Toaster..ugh, it's all in another tab. here.

Extend: what on earth just happened?

If people want to lynch me, so be it. I digress from your knowledge on the point of knowing less, as that goes on human speculation. Something which errs me, but maybe others have better viewpoints. I failed to ask at the right time in the right wording, perhaps, and now I'm paying for it, probably. Here is me being spurious--unsteady in my wording.

But really, that's just it. I'd expect you peasants (no offense, but that's better than calling you commoners or 'people' as that sounded derogative) to cry out witch witch at this point. Why I didn't want to use it before?

...You can infer the obvious from what I've all said, however right now I'm looking at Vector and Toaster being a tag-team. T'would be pretty silly given how their actions are, but..truly, those are poor reasons given.

"Policy lynch the third-party everyone, without giving context why or believable evidence why!

"Because it all happened before and I don't want to take my chances and I know the mod and his series!"

You know now how that annoyed me and the epic amounts of rational logic that meant here. Though, it does make sense. Ignorance spawns vengeance.[/taunt]

Also:

Tiruin prods Lenglon. "I'm standing right here."

Toaster

Lastly, what your remark to NQT is, is my point on you.

Okay, I'll grant you this one.  You said "I'm not a witch" within the context of your previous claim of not being third party, when I read it separately.  Consider my complaint on that post dropped.  [...]

A very nice startup until you found something actually suspicious about him. The bolded portion contradicts whatever you posted towards me, however, as only now after I shown you the error, you backtrack.

This is a lie.  NQT clarified this for me, not you.

Toaster
I explicitly said I wasn't 3rd party, you even quoted where I said it. I'm going to give you one last chance as it's still possible that you're being as dense as your namesake. Unless you have a crumb tray where your rational faculties ought be you'll know exactly what I was saying when I told you to think back to your previous witches games and reflect on what I was doing early on this game. I'm calling you out as confirmed scum if you don't see what I'm saying. You're allowed to disbelieve me but you should at least stop misrepresenting what I'm telling you.

August 12, 2013, 12:48:52 am

Yes he clarified it. I did that before he stated this.

You quoted it before. You read it, presumably.

Let me link it. I thoroughly believe you commented on this.

Number 1. Parenthesized sentence.

(yet it is strange seeing how he doesn't address it explicitly, he does [prior to bad semantics] say  I am not, as you say, a "third party". I am a journeyman carpenter." The second sentence throws it off.)

The punctuation.

I make this clearer.
4 hours post-NQT above there.

Accuse less, think more.


Next argument in that post of yours.

I believe I've answered all this above, and I stand by my reasoning on it.

The underlined bit, especially.  I am for lynching scummy people, sure, but when scum jumps out at me, why not take it up on its offer?

And yes, I think third party should hang.

Do you detail why I'm being scummy? No you don't. You compare, you ignite, then you point at the weak notion of tonal shift without putting a definitive statement in there.

-this carp-

Including..what. Adding in the notion of me wanting to insult others. Provoke others. Say it's a tonal shift in a really accusing way. You quotemine me and call it soft when the premise was a query on the third-party poker. WHich, part of your initial defense consisted of "OH BUT THIS HAPPENED BEFORE!"

Some of us stick to our morals no matter what we're aligned with.

Why shouldn't I be lynched? Do you want me to give reasons on that extremist point? It's all up to you, and/or everyone else to decide on that point and ascertain whether or not the target must be lynched under grounds of logic and communication. That sort of question is quite..I can't find the word for it. Strange? Out of place? It's like you're taking the role of a judge on that part and as if you've got power over me.

Given you've claimed third party, yes indeed, I do think you should give reasons.  Interesting that you think I'm acting like a judge, since that's an apt comparison to the role that everyone has.  Well, I suppose it's more akin to jury, since we're voting on who is guilty and who is not.  My vote is my power, and I choose to use it on you.

I claimed third-party = I should be lynched.

The note on the judge part was me using wrong wording. You were being more judgemental than not on that point.
The context being here, I pointed at

Oh, it's because YOU are third party, and don't want the witch hunt (pun intended) to extend to you.   So, Tiruin, I am calling you out.  Are you third party?  (So you say it cleanly for the record.)  What kind?  What is your goal?  Why shouldn't you be lynched?  Why should we believe anything you say?

this point. The emphasis is pretty obvious, and it's much like you're accusing out of reason here.

Your proceeding points are..pretty strange. You ask what kind, the goal, then the ongoing questions, when your verdict is 'lynch-em-cuz-they-are-far-more-deadly-than-witches'. In the same post where I got that quote. There, I do agree the side-with-wincon is beneficial, however in how it's approach I digress. Those are what is expected of those roles, and not a definite answer on why you should judge them. THough, it does show your bias against them and it partly explains why you're being...

...Well, not comely or open in communication.

(And I can't relate with the judge-jury matter. Here we lack a jury, everything is on the Judge's decision.)

Coward.

Bite me.

Eww.. :S



PPE: Vector.

I love how you stayed on and ignored my note on you.

No, I mean by it being a generality. Anyone could use the reason of 'this is why we lynch scum'.

Unless ignoring this is your answer, which my this PPE, it seems it is.

"Information the town needs and which causes no personal damaged" is not to be disbursed as a tactical move.  If she intended to work with town, she should have worked with town.  She's demonstrated that that isn't her highest intention.

Don't be a concluding jerk. I stated I'm omitting it, BECAUSE OF THE THREAT AT HAND. Because of LACKING INFORMATION. I did say I'm pro-town. Did you manage to ignore that too? Because that's just rude how you manage to strawman me into this point.

Don't automatically assume that she's a harmless survivor or positive role just because she has a protection spell.  You're playing in the big leagues now and it's time to step up to the plate.

How would you react if I told you I was a diviner with a holy relic?

Note: Lenglon's response on your post is far different from what you compare it to Ottofar's.
PPE LNCP/Lenglon

Vector: why are you so mad?

It sounds more on a personal note..err, sorry if anything sounds offensive above Vector.

[IronyOwl]

Hello everyone.


Vector, what the fuck is going on?

Lenglon: Hi! How familiar are you with LNCP games? You seem fairly opposed to the notion of third party automatically being dangerous, right?

Tiruin, when and what have you claimed (as part of your role) and why?

Leafsnail, why do you think NQT is town?