Good Morning, NQT. I'm kind of surprised to see you online right now.
My current opinion about Elements is that it's deeply flawed. Webadict was mostly right, but he didn't bother looking at the way the votes would end up, and that's where the real problems begin. Unless somebody can be tricked into doing something incredibly stupid, the game will deadlock after the first person dies.
Why's that? Two of the players will have only one ally left. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that fire (me) is the first to die. That means air only has water as an ally, and earth only has wood as an ally. They MUST work with their remaining ally if they want a mutual victory.
Wood and Water, though they are still technically allies, can no longer win together. If either Air dies, then Wood wins, and Water loses. If Earth dies, then Water wins and Wood loses. If Water dies, then Air will lose, and if Wood dies, then Earth will lose, because they are the last player blocking the mutual victory of the other two.
There was a point at the start of the game where I thought you could cast your protect onto yourself. If that were the case, then victory would go to whichever team cast their votes last -- the definition of a stalemate. Since they can't do that, though, then both members of each team will likely cast their protect votes on each other, and then both of their attack votes on one of their remaining enemies -- they'll both do this, and the game will stalemate. The only way to avoid this is for someone to sell out their team member -- but that will only cause them to lose.
If Fire ends up in the second round, it changes only a little. Fire can now cast their votes ... wait ... I might be able to win this with the air/fire deception we're pulling. But Sheep needs to vote last. But if I die, the game will definitely stalemate. It's impossible to deceive people into thinking you're someone you're not if they don't want you to do so.
Possible resolution: If there's a tie, then the earliest vote cast becomes the tiebreaker. (If the earliest vote cast is a protect, then there may be multiple deciding votes)
I have an idea for a revised version of the game, if you're interested in hearing it.
I've ran through it again. I don't think it'll be a problem because in any two alliances, one person has an incentive to try for an early victory, which causes enough instability I think to make this interesting. So, if Fire is dead, the two teams are Air-Water, and Wood-Earth. Water and Wood can win day two if they betray their ally and successfully defeat their winning target rather than the target their ally needs them to attack next.
I don't get how that would work. Here's how I imagine the votes lining up:
Air: Water
Water: Air Wood Earth
Wood: Earth
Earth: Wood Air Water
Now, if wood "betrays" earth and votes Air, (or anyone else except water, actually) then Earth DIES and water wins.
Now it, also could go like this, with water double-protecting air, but the result is the same:
Air: Water Water Wood Earth
Water: Air
Wood: Earth
Earth: Wood Air
But if water double-protects, this is the more likely outcome:
Air: Water Water
Water: Air Wood Earth
Wood: Earth
Earth: Wood Air
Which results in water dying and wood and earth winning a combined victory. So double-protect actually hurts water. The same isn't true of fire, though:
Air: Wood Earth
Fire: Air
Wood: Earth
Earth: Wood Air Fire Fire
As you can see, the game still stalemates.
Sure, it's trivial to betray your only remaining ally, but in every case that results in you losing.
Small Edit: Finished a statement that doesn't make sense without the rest of the text, and reworded air's ability Ephemeral since it didn't make sense.
Alrighty, I've been writing solid since you first replied to me. Let me know what you think.
Problem 1: It's far too difficult to hide your identity. Our posting styles are so diverse that it's hard to pull off. For Tiruin especially. I'm still not sure if Earth is Nerjin or Gankster, and I think I can pull off a switcheroo with TWS, but Tiruin was at a huge disadvantage because she can't pull off a deception like that, and it's a little harder for her to detect that kind of deception. Not to mention the fact that this leads to me looking at people's profiles to find the time they were last online, and waiting until TWS is online before I post in the chats so that I can't be caught easily by meta-information. The fact that we're even trying to pretend to be other people is a big problem. I even went so far as to create a false account for TWS to post with. (And I can't create a duplicate account of TWS because his name doesn't include a space)
Problem 2: Pretending to be a different element than you are is too easily proven to be false, and you don't gain much by doing so.
Problem 3: There isn't enough of a disincentive to publicly claim your element. (Actually, this is a problem raised by my variant, which I'll detail below)
Major Changes:
- Quicktopic channels are not named, and the players do not know the element of the player they have been connected with (making falseclaims possible, and indeed, even encouraged). They are guaranteed to be joined with at least one of their allies, but they don't know which one. Players are required to use their real names (it is not fair to expect players to be capable of masquerading as each other).
- Players may not cast both of their actions on the same target
- All players may now perform two attacks or two protects, but become exhausted if they do so. An exhausted player may only take 1 action. Exhaustion wears off after one day.
- Players can now be injured instead of killed outright. Injury and death are determined by absolute totals and not by "the most attacks".
- When a player suffers 1 attack, they are injured for 1 day. If they suffer another injury while injured, they die. A player that is injured can only take 1 action during the day. If the player survives to the next day, then they are no longer injured.
- If a player suffers 2 or more attacks, they die.
- Almost nothing flips when a player dies.
- Secret Actions add even more chaos to the game, but they also cause exhaustion.
You should really check out the new powers, listed below.
-- The game description originally appeared here, but as spoilers within spoilers don't work, it had to be relocated below --
I think your version could be quite fun. I definitely think creating greater scope for uncertainty over other people's alignments is a good idea. Actually, the fully anonymous quicktopics would work well with an earlier idea for a sixth element: someone that would win if there's a stalemate three rounds in a row. Everyone could have access to three anonymous quickchats, two with their allies, one with the sixth element, with no one knowing which was which.
If there's interest, perhaps you should run Elements 2?
- Quicktopic channels are not named, and the players do not know the element of the player they have been connected with (making falseclaims possible, and indeed, even encouraged). They are guaranteed to be joined with at least one of their allies, but they don't know which one. Players are required to use their real names (it is not fair to expect players to be capable of masquerading as each other).
- Players may not cast both of their actions on the same target
- All players may now perform two attacks or two protects, but become exhausted if they do so. An exhausted player may only take 1 action. Exhaustion wears off after one day.
- Players can now be injured instead of killed outright. Injury and death are determined by absolute totals and not by "the most attacks".
- When a player suffers 1 attack, they are injured for 1 day. If they suffer another injury while injured, they die. A player that is injured can only take 1 action during the day. If the player survives to the next day, then they are no longer injured.
- If a player suffers 2 or more attacks, they die.
- Almost nothing flips when a player dies.
- Secret Actions add even more chaos to the game, but they also cause exhaustion.
You should really check out the new powers, listed below.
ELEMENTS
The Captain's Edition
In the maelstrom of chaos at the beginning of all things, the five great elements played their games of fate to see who would shape the world to come.Elements is a mafialike game for five players. Each player plays an element secretly assigned to them: fire, air, water, earth and wood. Each element is naturally allied with two other elements and is enemy with two other elements. A player wins when both their enemies are dead and they are still alive.
The allegiances are as you'd expect:
Fire is allied with Air and Earth, enemy to Water and Wood.
Air is allied with Fire and Water, enemy to Earth and Wood.
Water is allied with Air and Wood, enemy to Fire and Earth.
Wood is allied with Water and Earth, enemy to Air and Fire.
Earth is allied with Wood and Fire, enemy to Water and Air.
Each day each player may take two actions, which must be either an attack or a protect. Each player may cast both an attack and a protect. They may instead cast two attacks or two protects, but doing so exhausts the player (see below). No player may cast more than one action on the same target, nor are they allowed to target themselves.
Each element has one or more special powers (listed below) which can alter the gameplay. Each element is able to speak individually to two other players privately through quicktopic channels. The players must identify themselves by their player name in these channels, but their elements are not known to each other. Each player is guaranteed to be connected to one of their allies, but they don't know which player or which element. In total there will be five quicktopics. Players are encouraged to make secret alliances with their allies, and to attempt to dupe their enemies into helping them win.
When a player dies, they may choose one other player to be privately informed whether the deceased was an enemy or an ally of theirs, but their true element is not revealed until the end.
Resolving AttacksAt the end of the day, all abilities are resolved and the total attacks and protects are tallied. Each protect nullifies one attack, (unless stated otherwise).
If a player suffers only 1 attack, then they are injured for the following day instead of killed. If a player suffers 2 or more attacks, or if they suffer at least one attack while injured, then they die.
An injured player may only take 1 action. (If they survive a day while injured, they are no longer injured on the following day) All players are publicly informed when a player is injured at the end of the day.
Exhaustion An exhausted player can take only 1 action. Exhaustion lasts for one day, and then expires.
A player that is both exhausted and injured may still take 1 action.
A player that is either exhausted or injured may still register 2 actions, but only one of them will function. If the player does not specify which one is "real", then the most recently cast action will be chosen. The actual actions taken will be shown accurately in the final tally.
The players are publicly informed when a player is injured by day end results, but are never informed when a player is exhausted, or when or if they may have healed from an injury.
Faking Exhaustion: Players may fake exhaustion by PMing the mod with their intent to do so.
Secret Actions Each player may register a single secret action or conditional action with the mod, specifying which of their actions to change, what to change it to, and the conditions under which it will change. This is only executed at day end, and it will cause the user to become exhausted for the next day.
The number of secret actions taken will be shown at the end of each day, but otherwise, there is no indication that you took a secret action.
You cannot take a Secret Action that would cause you to become exhausted more than once, or if you are already exhausted.
Abilites marked with
(Active) must be activated by sending a PM to the mod before the end of the day.
Water- Defender: Using two protects does not make you exhausted.
- Sentinel (Active): When activated, your attack does nothing, and your protect is worth double. You must have placed both an attack and protect action to use this ability.
- Douse: Each of your protects nullifies one attack made by fire in addition to their normal effect. Attacks made by you are doubled against fire.
Fire- Intensity: Using two attacks does not make you exhausted.
- Inferno (Active): When activated, your protect does nothing, and your attack is worth double. You must have placed both an attack and protect action to use this ability.
- Wildfire (Active): When activated, your protect does nothing, and anyone who protects the target of your attack suffers one extra attack from you. You may use both Inferno and Wildfire in the same turn, but doing so exhausts you, and only the first attack is doubled.
- Chaotic: You are not guaranteed to be linked up to at least one ally in your quicktopics. Either or both may be your enemies.
Air- Relief (Active): Once per day, you can cure a player of exhaustion (including yourself).
- Insubstantial (Active): Either or both of your actions (attacks/protects) can have no effect if you so choose.
- Ephemeral (Active): Taking a secret action does not cause you to become exhausted. You still may not take a secret action if you are exhausted.
- Fan the Flames (Active): Target a player. That player takes one additional damage if they are attacked by fire. This ability does not work on water.
Earth- Hard as Rock: You must be injured before you can be killed.
- Unyielding: You may still take two actions if exhausted or injured. If you are BOTH exhausted and injured, then you may only take 1 action.
- Erosion: Water's protects count as attacks when cast on you.
Wood- Renewal (Active): Once per game, you can heal an injured player. You cannot use this action if you are exhausted.
- Thorns (Active): Anyone who attacks the target of your protection will suffer one attack from you. However, this attack cannot cause a killing blow.
- Rainfall: Water's attacks on you count as protects.
- Flammable: If you protect fire, you will be injured.
- All valid Attack votes must be contain the name of the person the player wishes to attack in red, like: notquitethere, or attack notquitethere
- All valid Protect votes must contain the name of the person the player wishes to attack in green, like: notquitethere, or protect notquitethere
- Unattack, unvote, unvote or unprotect to remove your votes.
- You cannot target the same player with more than one action
- None of your secret decisions will be revealed, even if you die
- The day ends when all votes are given, or when no new votes are placed for two days (if you have voted then your vote is no longer counted as new, no matter how many times you change it)
- Modifying posts in this thread is forbidden. Do what you like on quicktopic
- Private messaging is not allowed outside of the quicktopics
- Fakeclaims are allowed and encouraged
- Once all votes have been placed, the day will end within 24 hours.
- No quoting of private messages from the mod is allowed.
Author
Topic: Elements -- Age 4: Silent Swamps- WATER and WOOD victory! (Read 19139 times)