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[Cheeetar]

Because Anita hates the idea that women could ever be portrayed as weak, ever, in any case. And it is stupid.

21:15 in Damsel in Distress: Part 3

You're wrong when you say that.

[alexandertnt]

Its ok for the male damsel to be knocked out, thrown about, whipped, crushed, blown up and replaceable with a dog because he is a guy. That is totally unacceptable for a women, right?

She never one said or implied that "Its ok for the male damsel to be knocked out etc", but rather that it is unusual for a male damsel to be in this situation and knocked out etc in comparison to a female one.

Once again, in Anitas eyes we can't portray women as weak, dependent, enfeebled, inadequate or incapable despite the fact that they often are

As Cheeetar pointed out, she doesn't do that at all, and actually gives fair examples of women being in these situations.

[Max White]

21:15 in Damsel in Distress: Part 3

You're wrong when you say that.

There is a difference between being weak and sometimes 'needing assistance', the example she goes on to give is Beyond Good and Evil. Do you really think Jade fills one of these weaker roles? Really?

I call bullshit. Absolute stinking bullshit.

She never one said or implied that "Its ok for the male damsel to be knocked out etc", but rather that it is unusual for a male damsel to be in this situation and knocked out etc in comparison to a female one.

6:42

As Cheeetar pointed out, she doesn't do that at all, and actually gives fair examples of women being in these situations.

No, no she really doesn't. Jade is in no way a mascot for 'women don't need to be super capable'

[palsch]

Transcript so you can stop arguing with time stamps.

[Rolan7]

Bluh.  I have to disagree with one of the main points of this episode, that parodying sexism perpetuates sexism.  In most of the cases she cited the damsel trope is ridiculously exaggerated and can't be taken seriously.  The message I get from such games is "Remember when the only women in video games were damsels with no agency or characterization?  Wasn't that hilarious and silly?"  The trope is shown as ridiculous.

Super Meat Boy, for example.  Bandage girl sits at the end of every level, crying and waiting to be rescued... and every time you reach her, spoiler alert, time freezes and she gets abducted in an over-the-top and often violent manner.  It's not at all serious, it's a joke.  Instead of being the main representation of women in video games, the Damsel stereotype is now a punchline.

The result of all this mockery is that the trope is harder to take seriously.  I see Ashley get abducted in Resident Evil 4 and I don't think "I gotta save her!".  I think "Wow, really devs?".  The intended emotional impact which the damsel in distress trope has traditionally evoked has been eroded, and I think one of the primary reasons is that we keep laughing at caricatures of it.

The damsel trope is just like retro graphics.  Both are used to tickle our nostalgia, and to make us laugh, and say: "Wow, we've come a long way."

[quinnr]

...
Lets just ignore the fact that zooming in and isolating the damsel is hardly a 'systemic, big picture perspective' and not at all representative of how spelunky portrays women.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

...

Once again, in Anitas eyes we can't portray women as weak, dependent, enfeebled, inadequate or incapable despite the fact that they often are. This is an inherit property of being human and typical of any sample population. We need weak, helpless females, just as much as we need weak, helpless men, and strong women and strong men. The only examples Anita gives that she deems acceptable were all of stronger women, implying it is unacceptable to be otherwise? Does this really send a much better message?

The problem is not at all with these portrayals, but rather a lack of examples showing women in a more empowered role, something Spelunky actually does. Spelunky puts both men and women on a pretty much even platform... yet still she has a problem with it. Because Anita hates the idea that women could ever be portrayed as weak, ever, in any case. And it is stupid.

Arguably not so. The XBox and new Spelunky version may add some female main-characters...but the original Spelunky's only female character was the Damsel who would simply sit on a ledge yelling for help. You could pick her up, and throw her, and she would run in circles until you picked her up again and took her to the exit. As a reward you would get a kiss and a health point. Not quite a positive display of females.

[Neonivek]

that it is unusual for a male damsel to be in this situation and knocked out etc in comparison to a female one

She has never EVER said this and if she did she would need to explain herself.

She has ONLY ever compared Female Damsels to Male Protagonists. She has never compared male and female damsels unless all of a sudden she did this in the third video.

Mind you I am a point and click nut... and the one thing about point and clicks is that when it comes to gender representation, you are not going to find a more balanced genre for both roles and playable characters.

the original Spelunky's only female character was the Damsel who would simply sit on a ledge yelling for help.

Yes but to my knowledge it had a male damsel too who was worth less points but had more life and ran away less.

[quinnr]

that it is unusual for a male damsel to be in this situation and knocked out etc in comparison to a female one

She has never EVER said this and if she did she would need to explain herself.

She has ONLY ever compared Female Damsels to Male Protagonists.

Mind you I am a point and click nut... and the one thing about point and clicks is that when it comes to gender representation, you are not going to find a more balanced genre for both roles and playable characters.

the original Spelunky's only female character was the Damsel who would simply sit on a ledge yelling for help.

Yes but to my knowledge it had a male damsel too who was worth less points.

There is a male damsel in the Spelunky HD, but the original did not have anything of the sort, at least according to the wiki...

[Max White]

Arguably not so. The XBox and new Spelunky version may add some female main-characters...but the original Spelunky's only female character was the Damsel who would simply sit on a ledge yelling for help. You could pick her up, and throw her, and she would run in circles until you picked her up again and took her to the exit. As a reward you would get a kiss and a health point. Not quite a positive display of females.

Ah, well I won't comment on a game I don't know a huge amount about, but I will say that the game Anita is talking about in her videos, as evident from gameplay footage, is Spelunky HD, so talking about the short comings of a different game is sort of irrelevant.

[Rolan7]

the original Spelunky's only female character was the Damsel who would simply sit on a ledge yelling for help.

Yes but to my knowledge it had a male damsel too who was worth less points.

I never unlocked it, and the HD release has made it harder to find details, but after rescuing 8 damsels in a single run you unlocked the ability to play as one.  When playing as a damsel all the level-damsels are male.  I *think* they're the male hero sprite, a simple and amusing reversal, but it might be those red-bowtie guys.  Pretty sure there was no mechanical difference, both give you a health point.

[Neonivek]

I don't mean the male damsel who replaces the female damsel if you are playing her.

I mean there is a male character you can save in the dungeon since the first game. Not just her.

[quinnr]

Arguably not so. The XBox and new Spelunky version may add some female main-characters...but the original Spelunky's only female character was the Damsel who would simply sit on a ledge yelling for help. You could pick her up, and throw her, and she would run in circles until you picked her up again and took her to the exit. As a reward you would get a kiss and a health point. Not quite a positive display of females.

Ah, well I won't comment on a game I don't know a huge amount about, but I will say that the game Anita is talking about in her videos, as evident from gameplay footage, is Spelunky HD, so talking about the short comings of a different game is sort of irrelevant.

Ah, I apologize then, I only just hopped into the thread now, and haven't looked through the rest of it, yet.

[Neonivek]

So she is talking about Splunky HD... the game with both male and female damsels?

That is... sad.

Almost as sad as when she spoke about Bayonetta (mostly by getting a lot of the details incorrect)

[Max White]

No I am going to say this is more sad.
A game where the only real difference in gender roles between men and women are that men are portrayed as shopkeepers and slaves, where women are not, and that still isn't good enough for her because the damsel gets thrown around and killed a lot, and sometimes, sometimes that happens to be a woman. Not even the majority of the time, only a third. Still not good enough!

[Neonivek]

No I am going to say this is more sad.
A game where the only real difference in gender roles between men and women are that men are portrayed as shopkeepers and slaves, where women are not, and that still isn't good enough for her because the damsel gets thrown around and killed a lot, and sometimes, sometimes that happens to be a woman. Not even the majority of the time, only a third. Still not good enough!

Not to mention the fact that the women get killed is incidental and it only occurs because nothing in the game prevents it from happening.