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[Neonivek]

How about every time somebody uses the word patriarchy?

I love it for just how much of conspiracy theory levels that goes.

To the extent where people write about the patriarchy as if it was a conscious effort by "men" to put women down.

[penguinofhonor]

Nobody here is doing that, but beating on that straw man must feel pretty good.

[Max White]

No but it does happen, and it is a problem.
Also to bring it back to the thread topic, it happens in the Tropes vs Women videos.

[Neonivek]

Nobody here is doing that, but beating on that straw man must feel pretty good.

Well in order to "straw man" I need to associate it to someone.

Since Strawman is to "present someone's arguments as a weaker argument"

Strawman is not "to present a weak argument"

Though I guess I could "poison the well" by saying "And here is my inferior and evil malicious opponent, Penguin without HONOR!"

[penguinofhonor]

I consider it strawmanning when someone brings up an argument nobody is using, then strikes it down to make themselves look good.

That might not be exactly correct, but I don't know what else to call it.

[Neonivek]

I consider it strawmanning when someone brings up an argument nobody is using, then strikes it down to make themselves look good.

That might not be exactly correct, but I don't know what else to call it.

It is called a non-argument.

I understand what you mean: "Congratulations, you proven you have an intellect greater then dumb people"

[Vector]

Patriarchy means that traditionally men inherit property, lead the people, and head the families.

Are you SURE you want to get your boxerbriefs in a twist?

[Neonivek]

Patriarchy means that traditionally men inherit property, lead the people, and head the families.

Are you SURE you want to get your boxerbriefs in a twist?

Well the term patriarchy has been expanded and generally refers to anything that stems from a patriarchal society.

[Max White]

Patriarchy means that traditionally men inherit property, lead the people, and head the families.

Are you SURE you want to get your boxerbriefs in a twist?

Then I'm not sure why Anita bothers to bring it up when that definition has nothing to do with what she is talking about.

[Neonivek]

Patriarchy means that traditionally men inherit property, lead the people, and head the families.

Are you SURE you want to get your boxerbriefs in a twist?

Then I'm not sure why Anita bothers to bring it up when that definition has nothing to do with what she is talking about.

Because Patriarchy includes ALL men.

Or let me be more specific: Because men own the buisnesses, because patriarchy, it means they control games.

Thus games are sexist because patriarchy.

Mind you I am simplifying.

[Vector]

Because the patriarchal system is pretty much shorthand for "what fucks women over?"

Men are given a power over women that people should not have over other people -> women suffer (and yes, also men , who may not enjoy dominating people but are demanded to anyway)-> "hey, here are all the ways in which this power system, although diminishing, is still screwing with folks."

[Reelya]

I have no idea whom the two of you think you're arguing so passionately with.

I brought up the original point in relation to palsch's link about the spousal murder rate.

You then disputed elements of what I brought up, with a clear intention of disputing my conclusions.

I defended the points, reiterated the conclusion.

Now you claim to be uninvolved in the discussion. Which, after you claimed me discussing the issue is "attacking you" is frankly unbelievable.

[Reelya]

Nobody here is doing that, but beating on that straw man must feel pretty good.

Well, patriarchy doesn't have to be explicitly mentioned, but for instance in the discussion on domestic violence, specifically how common it is to frame the woman as always the true victim, regardless of who did what, is clearly indicating an adherence to the patriarchal model. Vector provided an entire page of links to science studies showing that this model is a form of confirmation bias.

So someone doesn't have to explicitly reference "the patriarchy" to be falling into the pattern of using it as a catch-all explanation, and to discredit alternate explanations. And we have real world evidence that this isn't just a semantic game, real people are being harmed, even killed, because this model fails to account for reality. Maybe it had it's uses in the past, but it's at the point that the "low hanging fruit" that were helped by that model are already picked. Now, new more accurate models of people's behavior are required, since the model is only a crude first approximation of the real phenomena.

[Vector]

Look.  You have repeatedly attacked arguments I never put forth.  Having nebulous opinions is not a crime, and accusing me of having opinions I have never espoused, nor even implied I espoused, is getting incredibly old.  I don't have the energy, time, or desire to deal with this anymore.

I am plumb out of nice.  Let's look at the facts--I don't even need to say anything, because you seem to be enjoying supplying my argument for me.  Enjoy arguing with yourself.

[Neonivek]

Because the patriarchal system is pretty much shorthand for "what fucks women over?"

Men are given a power over women that people should not have over other people -> women suffer (and yes, also men , who may not enjoy dominating people but are demanded to anyway)-> "hey, here are all the ways in which this power system, although diminishing, is still screwing with folks."

Honestly... It really does.

Why do some women like the same things men do? The answer I got from a feminist is that it is because men told them that is what looks good and they, lacking all autonomy because of the patriarchy, basically try to appease men by also liking those things.

My problem with the idea of the "all powerful Patriarchy" is that it pretty much says that women have no power, autonomy, or thoughts of their own and kind of makes me think in a way that is "Then what is the point?"