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[Neonivek]

Yeah, Neonivek, but I think that's only more recently become widespread

Well, I know it has started appearing in the 1990s and since the game range doesn't go under that.

[Vector]

I'm talking about percentages and prevalence, not "it exists."

Usually, for example, in sci-fi/fantasy realms all the grunts you fight will be male unless they belong to a specifically matriarchal/female-only group.  Especially in historical games.  Assassin's Creed?  Everyone you fight is male.  Metal Gear?  Everyone you fight (who isn't a boss battle) is male.  And so on.  Those are only two games, but it really is pretty common.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Metal Gear?  Everyone you fight (who isn't a boss battle) is male.

Not in MGS4.

[Neonivek]

in sci-fi/fantasy realms all the grunts you fight will be male unless they belong to a specifically matriarchal/female-only group

Now are we talking about faceless goons?

So basically we are talking about Sci-fi / Fantasy games where ordinary non-boss enemies are female?

Star Ocean 2 was Fantasy and Scifi and had female grunts, Final Fantasy Tactics had female grunts, Gladius has female grunts, Halflife had female grunts, Hmmm I should get more... To my collection of games!

Especially in historical games

Yeah but that gets a free pass in the same vein that a NHL game gets a free pass.

Mind you I don't think the presence of Female Grunt units are all that important, especially when games include female characters and bosses.

---

Actually going through my list... female grunts aren't that uncommon even in fantasy and scifi.

But if you want to know why most grunts don't get a male and female variant... It is because of Alone in the Dark

In Alone in the Dark they added a female protagonist (she is considered the world's first Female protagonist made for female gamers in mind) and originally decided to make them share all the same animations. It didn't work.

Adding a female version of an enemy generally speaking is adding an additional enemy.

[Vector]

Metal Gear?  Everyone you fight (who isn't a boss battle) is male.

Not in MGS4.

Right, the GECKOs.  I forgot about them--thanks for the reminder.


Neonivek:

Yeah, mooks/non-plot-central characters was what I was talking about all along, sorry.

Yeah but that gets a free pass in the same vein that a NHL game gets a free pass.

Well, there's this.  And especially, please read this.

Mind you I don't think the presence of Female Grunt units are all that important, especially when games include female characters and bosses.

I think it's important.  The reason why is because, like I said, it shifts violence towards woman as something "special."  It's like, why is it special to kill a woman?  You put her as the boss; it's especially great to kill bosses; that's a sort of tortured and unexpected experience that we'd look at things that way, but I do think it's important to have female grunts so we don't have this sort of "myth of the exceptional woman" who of course requires exceptional violence.

And it helps men, too, so they stop looking like the expendable gender.

[kaijyuu]

On a sort of related note, I do wish that fantasy games with various different races showed both genders in the game, rather than just one (and it's usually just male).

Look at world of warcraft. Dozens of races with no apparent female members. Not a single female-only one either.

[Neonivek]

On a sort of related note, I do wish that fantasy games with various different races showed both genders in the game, rather than just one (and it's usually just male).

Look at world of warcraft. Dozens of races with no apparent female members. Not a single female-only one either.

Well Protoss are all genderless but are clearly masculine in nature. While the Zerg are all female but are masculine in nature.

[Dutchling]

Protoss genderless? What?

There are male and female Protoss campaign characters in Starcraft 2 o.O

[Vector]

I was going to say...

Even my beloved Mass Effect has this problem.  We're told that Krogan, Salarians, and Turians at the very least have female members of the species, but the only sexually dimorphic women we see are Quarians, and those very seldom (men are marked as men among Salarians, Krogan, and Turians, but if any women appear, they are unmarked, so it's not just a "they look the same" issue); in combat roles, we only see the female-only Asari, and those we meet through experiencing them as strippers and consorts first, commandos second (this is notably much, much better in Mass Effect 2).

They do a good job with human representation in a lot of different roles, though.  Kudos for that.

[Neonivek]

Protoss genderless? What?

There are male and female Protoss campaign characters in Starcraft 2 o.O

Really? I could have sworn they would be genderless.

As for Mass Effect Vector

SOME of the Races have an excuse. Not seeing a female Krogan is justified in the game's narrative (they are far far too important). Others you MAY have seen the female version but are just not a sexually dimorphic (A few that is the case).

The rest? No excuse. I actually assume the creators just didn't want to add an additional gender.

and those we meet through experiencing them as strippers and consorts first

Sort of... The twist is really weird and sort of silly.

Silly in the sense that it is taboo to see them, yet... unless you meet ONE of them (the only one who has sex for money because that is her gig) they don't do anything lewd.

[Bauglir]

Justification in the narrative is a part of the problem, since narratives are arbitrary. This isn't a realism complaint.

[Neonivek]

Justification in the narrative is a part of the problem, since narratives are arbitrary. This isn't a realism complaint.

It does when the availability also exists.

So you have a kingdom where they only employ men in a game where otherwise every nation has both male and female units? Sure.

Honestly I half expect female Krogans look exactly the same as the male ones... Either that or they are a sexually dimorphic species with larger females given the Krogan head size)

[Bauglir]

What? Did... did you quote the right post?

EDIT: To clarify, I don't understand what you mean by "availability", or what that example has to do with complaints about a situation where male-only mooks are the standard.

[Neonivek]

If there are male only mooks for one subsection in an otherwise diverse game... It is fine as it becomes the exception rather then the standard.

[Soadreqm]

Yeah, that's the problem.  You don't beat up female grunts, so when you beat up your girlfriend for her own good, it feels like we're putting violence against women on a pedestal.  It's supposed to be violence against that particular woman that is motivating, but when there's only one of them, it seems like it's violence against all womanhood.

And why do we write it this way?  Because it's not okay to hit a girl or kill a woman when she's an enemy soldier (no one wants to do that, and women can't be soldiers anyway, aren't strong enough to fight back--I think that's the argument), but it is okay to hit or kill a woman if she's emotionally significant enough to you and vulnerable.

I agree with the first paragraph. The second one, though... I don't think video games imply that it's okay to kill a woman you're on a first-name basis with. Rather, it's NOT okay, so by doing it anyway your game is being DARK and EDGY. And although female mooks are somewhat rare, when they DO happen, I think they're basically taken in stride. I'm thinking of Knights of the Old Republic or Baldur's Gate.