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Author Topic: Magic Mafia - Game Over!  (Read 222330 times)

TheWetSheep

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 1: Let The Magic Begin
« Reply #330 on: April 07, 2013, 06:48:20 pm »

Are we really going to lynch Zrk again? I haven't seen anyone bring up anything that distinguishes his behavior now from his behavior every other time he was mislynched. Lynching him for stuff that he has been consistently shown to do when he's town doesn't seem productive in the least. I can't even conclude much of anything about the alignment of the people who voted for him, since I can't really fault any of their arguments against him.
Just reread Day 1 of Roguelike Mafia and realized you're kind of right. I'm not going to unvote him now, though, since it would cause a tie and I'm not sure I like discounting scumminess completely because of Zrk's meta.

I looked through Deathsword's posts and there's very little material there:

Now. Out of his seven posts, the first is RVS, and doesn't have too much material. The second and fifth are short and only answer a single question each. The third asks a single person a question. The fourth asks for clarification. The sixth promises more later. Only the last has a lot of good content.

Does anyone else see this as very little contribution to the discussion?

Deathsword: What's the reason for this?

Captain Ford

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 1: Let The Magic Begin
« Reply #331 on: April 07, 2013, 07:34:49 pm »

Griff:
I would also like to note that he does keep saying we should lynch the person who is doing the worst job scum hunting...
Yeah, he does keep saying that. I don't agree with it, though.

Ranger: ...so you're saying you did it for no reason?

NQT: ...yeah, pretty much what I figured. De-voting.

TWS: We've still got time. People will be active tomorrow and I don't think causing a tie is a good enough reason to keep a bad vote. (Although I do see it's not your only reason for keeping your vote on him)

And scumtells are scumtells because they identify scum. If they don't identify scum for a particular person, then they aren't, by definition, scumtells for that person. Having just seen Zrk2 lynched on the same basis and flipping town, AND losing KotM3 in part because we lynched someone because they were useless (Deathsword could have told us how Okami died), I'm not exactly sold on the idea of lynching someone just because they're not pulling their weight. (And Zrk2 is putting in a decent amount of effort. Even if he's not doing it the way I would. [PPE: Hey, I found a towntell!])

Hapah: I'm very late to the party, but...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also, I've never seen you play scum. Could you point me towards a game or two where you played on a scumteam?



Right now, nobody seems to have any strong suspicions (at least not that I can see).

Ranger: You said you don't believe in a no-lynch anymore, but is there anyone you think is worth lynching?
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Vector

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 1: Let The Magic Begin
« Reply #332 on: April 07, 2013, 07:45:16 pm »

Extend.

I have a goal of not asking for a replacement, but I can't do my reread right now.  Small personal crisis of the "I have reams of homework, need to hunt for jobs, and seem to have suddenly just started falling for an intriguingly bad choice after 6 months of abstinence from dating, wat do" variety.

For now, my reads.  They're less clear than usual, but I'll put them out and do a backread on the scummier fellows tomorrow:

Toaster - I keep forgetting he is playing--this sort of worries me.  Scum or third party?
Deathsword - Seems to be reactive, rather than active.  One of my possible scumpicks.
notquitethere - Assuming that you're town (as I believe you to be--either that, or 3rd party, because god knows I can't get a good fix on you), I think your gambit should be saved until your reads are clearer.  We used a tool like this to some effectiveness in the very first KWN, in which the players were sectored into pairs who were responsible for doing in-depth reads on each other's alignments mid-game.  Get information now, but focus on scumhunting.  I'm not really sure that a separate chat would do myself in particular any good--if you've got someone you really want raked over the coals, cool, but in general I do better in a broader setting where I have other folks to bounce off of.

This is all to say that you're best off if you can build a mason chat, so work on your reads first above all other things.
Urist Imiknorris - we're out of RVS; doesn't seem to be playing at all.  Lean scum.
Vector - town
Hapah - ? Hasn't posted enough to get a good read.
Tiruin - Town.
Captain Ford - Lean town.
The Soldier - Lean town.
Griffonday - Town.
TheWetSheep - Don't know.  More investigation required.
TolyK - More investigation required.
Zrk2 - Possibly scum.  I need to look back at the whole "role-fishing" thing and ask some more questions; I've established recently that I can't read this fellow very well.
RangerCado - Lean stupid newbie town.
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RangerCado

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 1: Let The Magic Begin
« Reply #333 on: April 07, 2013, 08:10:00 pm »

Captain: Since this appears to be something Zrk did before and flipped town, (i did go and read it and it feels all to similar to this) i'll unvote.as for who would seem lynch worthy, i would say Urist Imiknorris. He was my second scum pick and i still think his reasons of going after me are as bad as Zrk's. If Zrk continues his behaviour into day 2 (provided he and i survive) I will continue to go after him unless the behaviour becomes productive. Also to answer your first question, I was panicing a bit and from the start i was a bit of a trainwreck. I've improved since and kinda regret doing that.

UI: Given recent and previous developments, do you really believe i or Zrk should be lynched?
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Vector

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 1: Let The Magic Begin
« Reply #334 on: April 07, 2013, 08:14:47 pm »

Now. Out of his seven posts, the first is RVS, and doesn't have too much material. The second and fifth are short and only answer a single question each. The third asks a single person a question. The fourth asks for clarification. The sixth promises more later. Only the last has a lot of good content.

Does anyone else see this as very little contribution to the discussion?

Now, dear heart, why would you ask us what we think?  It smells like you're looking for the approval of the town and directing the lynch despite just so happening to rest your vote elsewhere.


True.
And "Tomorrow" from that day was today, for me. Eh.

It's still today, isn't it?  Did I promise the morning?  No, I didn't.  Off my ass you go.


Captain: Since this appears to be something Zrk did before and flipped town, (i did go and read it and it feels all to similar to this) i'll unvote.as for who would seem lynch worthy, i would say Urist Imiknorris. He was my second scum pick and i still think his reasons of going after me are as bad as Zrk's. If Zrk continues his behaviour into day 2 (provided he and i survive) I will continue to go after him unless the behaviour becomes productive. Also to answer your first question, I was panicing a bit and from the start i was a bit of a trainwreck. I've improved since and kinda regret doing that.

UI: Given recent and previous developments, do you really believe i or Zrk should be lynched?

Why is everything about you?
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Captain Ford

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 1: Let The Magic Begin
« Reply #335 on: April 07, 2013, 09:25:58 pm »

Captain: Since this appears to be something Zrk did before and flipped town, (i did go and read it and it feels all to similar to this) i'll unvote.as for who would seem lynch worthy, i would say Urist Imiknorris. He was my second scum pick and i still think his reasons of going after me are as bad as Zrk's. If Zrk continues his behaviour into day 2 (provided he and i survive) I will continue to go after him unless the behaviour becomes productive. Also to answer your first question, I was panicing a bit and from the start i was a bit of a trainwreck. I've improved since and kinda regret doing that.

UI: Given recent and previous developments, do you really believe i or Zrk should be lynched?
Hmm...why did you pick this moment in particular to switch your vote?

And then you totally go and redirect my question to UI. (not that it isn't valid)

This just feels jumpy.
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RangerCado

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 1: Let The Magic Begin
« Reply #336 on: April 07, 2013, 09:44:06 pm »

Captain: i was on and after the post i was planning to watch a movie so i added the vote in there. Plus i'm not gonna be on much monday as i have some work for school to do all night, i didn't want to miss placing my vote. If it makes you feel any better i could unvote him and vote him tomorrow morning before school. Plus the Zrk thing is really weird, Almost exactly the same Reactions and semi-anger i've seen from him here so i'm gonna see where this goes.
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Griffionday

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 1: Let The Magic Begin
« Reply #337 on: April 07, 2013, 09:56:11 pm »

I second the Extend; looking back over the posts there are a couple other people who I wish to question further.


Zrk2:
For now I'll concede Ford's point that you're acting in character, and am willing to hold off my lynch vote on you until later in the day.  Do consider yourself MAJORLY suspected, and I may feel the need to keep poking you throughout the day. 

Please take the time to answer my questions posed to you, and attempt to do scum hunting that that the rest of us can follow.  If we can't read your hunt and get what you're getting out of it, it's useless to us; and I will consider it as you not trying to hunt.  Apply pressure; it feels awful, but you can always rescind if they completely convince you.  Depending on how the next couple days go, my vote may return to you.



Deathsword:

You're talking. I'm taking advantage of it. Now you're getting defensive. Interesting. You do know you can take liberties with questions... mix them up, combine some, take time on others... Whatever. Just take the time to talk to me, to us. Getting bitchy and voting for me because of it however is not helpful.

To me it looks like you are trying to taunt him into becoming angry and looking scummy. That, Zrk2, is a pretty bad move.

Tell me, have you got anything out of the "keep him talking" thing? Because according to what you said, it only achieved that: making him talk.

No, but some general rules would be nice.
We are clearly out of RVS. You ask Griffon a wall of RVS questions. Andd now you shrug it off by saying that?

To me this reads like you're predicting which way the wind was blowing and posting your vote on Zrk2 to make yourself seem like you're scum hunting.  It also vaguely feels like buddying, or at least like you're trying to get my approval of you.

So let's go through this:
To me it looks like you are trying to taunt him into becoming angry and looking scummy. That, Zrk2, is a pretty bad move.
Wait; why is this a bad move again?  It seems to me making someone angry and causing them to crack and look scummy is the point of this phase.  If they can explain why they're looking scummy, it helps give a town read.  Goodness knows that is what I was trying to do.  Now yes; I think the question was ill thought out, and insultingly handled; but it, in and of itself is not a major scum tell like you're implying.  Following up a non-answer to a question with "why are you being defensive" most certainly isn't a scum tell.

No, but some general rules would be nice.
We are clearly out of RVS. You ask Griffon a wall of RVS questions. Andd now you shrug it off by saying that?
Why is trying to get a handle on how I play D1 bad?  Getting a handle on how various people handle their first day perfectly legitimate.  It's extremely useful for avoiding the fallacy of "Doesn't play like me, must be scum."

Honestly this entire post of yours reads like you're just pushing me into building more of a case around Zrk2; without providing real reasons of your own.  What have you been contributing to the scum hunt?



Vector:
Thanks for the reminder that Toaster is playing, I'd forgotten as well.  And having your reads is useful, so thanks for that as well.  Although I'm a touch concerned that you'd only take the time to check that you read town if you're scum....



Toaster:
The game is well out of RVS now, where have you been?



Ford:
Fair enough; I'm willing to stop tunneling Zrk2 for a while to see how he acts.
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Vector

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 1: Let The Magic Begin
« Reply #338 on: April 07, 2013, 09:58:49 pm »

I don't really understand what you said, Griffionday.  Would you mind clarifying?
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Vector

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 1: Let The Magic Begin
« Reply #339 on: April 07, 2013, 09:59:40 pm »

Crap--I mean, I don't understand the part that you addressed to me.  The third sentence is confusing.
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Griffionday

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 1: Let The Magic Begin
« Reply #340 on: April 07, 2013, 10:04:44 pm »

Vector:
Vector - town

It's nothing major, just saying that if you actually took the time to analyze yourself and came up with that (rather than just saying it because "why not"), it'd be suspicious.  And you seem to have gotten mostly the same reads I have, which makes me feel more confident...  Which could be a ruse (rattles off into WIFOM land).
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TheWetSheep

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 1: Let The Magic Begin
« Reply #341 on: April 07, 2013, 10:08:35 pm »

This post is probably my last before day end. I don't have a strong enough scum reading on anyone to change my vote yet.

Vector:
Now. Out of his seven posts, the first is RVS, and doesn't have too much material. The second and fifth are short and only answer a single question each. The third asks a single person a question. The fourth asks for clarification. The sixth promises more later. Only the last has a lot of good content.

Does anyone else see this as very little contribution to the discussion?

Now, dear heart, why would you ask us what we think?  It smells like you're looking for the approval of the town and directing the lynch despite just so happening to rest your vote elsewhere.
Basically because I'm not confident. I'm not sure yet what constitutes lurking/active-lurking, so I was asking the more experienced players before I let myself become too suspicious of him.

Ranger: You should probably not be so submissive. Don't shift your vote just because a more experienced player is telling you to. Backing off when there's pressure on you looks scummy.

Vector

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 1: Let The Magic Begin
« Reply #342 on: April 07, 2013, 10:11:21 pm »

Uh... yes, well, I very carefully analyzed what it says in my role PM, and I'm pretty convinced it says I'm town.

WetSheep, you need to take your own advice.
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RangerCado

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 1: Let The Magic Begin
« Reply #343 on: April 07, 2013, 10:59:17 pm »

TWS: It comes with my personality. I prefer to compromise with people and second guess myself while saying my thoughts out loud... Probably why i'm having trouble with this game. I'll probably post once more tomorrow at around 4 to 5 pm so give me all your questions before then. (freaking Social Studies taking so much of my time nowadays.)
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Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 1: Let The Magic Begin
« Reply #344 on: April 07, 2013, 11:10:09 pm »

Zrk2:
Zrk2:
I have had people rub me the wrong way, but so far I have not seen enough to place anyone else on the list. It's a work in progress.
Who, and what are you doing about it?

I still need to go back through the thread. I've had so many questions to address I haven't had time to go looking for scum. It's unfortunate I was hoping to have my list and justifications all written up today, but I have too much else going on.
So you can't even say who you have gut feelings about?

Also:
Quote
It's also true. Did you read my post? This isn't primarily a pressure vote. This is a you are scum vote. However, if someone scummier comes along I will move my vote.
Interesting. In the very statement that TWS quoted, you said:

Quote
You are either scum trying to ruin the lynch or a totally ineffective townie, and I think lynching either on D1 is tolerable.

That doesn't sound like a "you are scum" vote. That sounds like an "I don't care what your alignment is" vote.
Ignoring your contradictions will not make them go away. Would you care to explain it?

RangerCado:
UI: Okay, but this still doesn't tell me if your wether you think my reasons for voting Zrk were justified or not, it even sounds like you didn't read my reasons for going after him the first time i explained them. This is strange to me as you appear to have suspicions on him as well yet go after the person whos been on him, and giving reasons for why, is strange and quite scummy to me. Although i consider Zrk scummier right now, you are becoming a close second. If Zrk comes up town however, i may be inclined to trust you.
Whether your reasons were initially justified or not is entirely irrelevant because you lost that reason, and kept voting him anyway with no reasons at all, still calling him the scummiest. The fact that you got reasons later is similarly irrelevant.

UI: Given recent and previous developments, do you really believe i or Zrk should be lynched?
I do in fact really believe that you should be lynched.

Also, why are you suddenly rushing to defend your former main suspect from all comers, including the ones who aren't actually advocating his lynch?

TolyK:
Quote
...
It's interesting. Many people poking at lurking. Lurk lurk lurk, comprises most of what I read in some posts. Why do you people think lurking is an offense in DAY ONE? I mean, you can just log off, then bookmark the quicktopic link and/or view the thread whilst logged off. Do you people think Lurking = Laziness, or that lurking = lack of drive in scumhunting? Because classifying things as "LURKING" doesn't hold much water unless you back it up with the reasons behind it.

I mean really. He's lurking = he's scum for being online? For an extended amount of time, now that's where suspicion begins to grow. For...a few hours? Not that much in the way of conclusive evidence.
Hm. Experiment. If Uri Eye notices that I said this, then he I have a hypothesis. I don't want anyone other than him to answer this, just for the interest. If he doesn't answer in his next 2 posts then I get information as well, and I might pressure-vote him. As I said, I want ONLY him to answer this, don't quote or refer to it until he posts. Alrite?
There's not really anything to answer. Her question looks to be rhetorical, and even if it wasn't, I couldn't answer anyway because I don't think that.

What was the point of this?
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