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[Sorcerer Kail]

Alright, well one of them is a traditional land attack. The army is a bit larger. The other involves something Marus has been given that I plan to reveal later if the situation arises. The army is considerably smaller, but it's not a traditional battle.

Thinking about it, I'm probsbly going to go with the more traditional battle, since this is your first battle.

It would be wise as after that you can use that Marus secret to keep game interesting. Also... Well If I were Marus and wanted to have fun enemy I would go that way.

[Origami_Psycho]

Alright, well one of them is a traditional land attack. The army is a bit larger. The other involves something Marus has been given that I plan to reveal later if the situation arises. The army is considerably smaller, but it's not a traditional battle.

Thinking about it, I'm probsbly going to go with the more traditional battle, since this is your first battle.

It would be wise as after that you can use that Marus secret to keep game interesting. Also... Well If I were Marus and wanted to have fun enemy I would go that way.

That and also I imagine marus wouldn't be dumb enough to waste all his aces on an enemy as comparatively insignificant as us.  Therefore we obviously go with the traditional army, and prepare accordingly.

[Sorcerer Kail]

Send the scout anyway though.

[Remuthra]

Yes. How many more Umbral Cattle did you want, and in what genders?

[javierpwn]

2 females 1 Male pws!

[Origami_Psycho]

Sooo are we or are we not gonna start army building yet?

[Eotyrannus]

Okay, guys, let's think of what the enemy is going to try and do. He's got death, water and cold magic, so we need either troops that can work with that or troops that can work against that.

I would recommend using a bird as a base.  Their crops could hold our wanted ranged weapon, and a thick coat of feathers can be useful in both warm and cold temperatures.
We also need a creature that can prevent ice from forming, as that could be lethal to even the best-insulated beast. Perhaps we could give them a second crop that contains a chemical reaction. We could take a note from Parasite Eve, and have hyperactive mitochondria.
We need them to not drown, either.

From this, I would presume that our best option would be to have a modified gull, or other seabird, as our soldier unit. Bats would be better against damage to the wings, but they wouldn't cope as well with the cold or water.

What about death spells? Bird-bombers looks fun for enemy though.

Not sure about that, but they won't be able to make the feathers shrivel up and die, since they're already made of non-living tissue. And unlike insect wings, feathers can be replaced. If the birds stay out of lethal range, they can simply lock their wings and glide to a (relatively) safe landing.

I don't think that feathers will protect from something that directly attacks the target.

Yeah, they won't stop a direct hit to the body, but the bird (as long as it doesn't fall too hard) won't have problems like infection and blood loss if it gets hit in the wing, and it won't be permanently grounded.
If we want a larger animal, on the other hand, bats all the way. Their larger size means they aren't as vulnerable to cold, and a membrane wing gets stronger with size, while a feathered wing gets weaker as it grows.

[Origami_Psycho]

Okay, guys, let's think of what the enemy is going to try and do. He's got death, water and cold magic, so we need either troops that can work with that or troops that can work against that.

I would recommend using a bird as a base.  Their crops could hold our wanted ranged weapon, and a thick coat of feathers can be useful in both warm and cold temperatures.
We also need a creature that can prevent ice from forming, as that could be lethal to even the best-insulated beast. Perhaps we could give them a second crop that contains a chemical reaction. We could take a note from Parasite Eve, and have hyperactive mitochondria.
We need them to not drown, either.

From this, I would presume that our best option would be to have a modified gull, or other seabird, as our soldier unit. Bats would be better against damage to the wings, but they wouldn't cope as well with the cold or water.

What about death spells? Bird-bombers looks fun for enemy though.

Not sure about that, but they won't be able to make the feathers shrivel up and die, since they're already made of non-living tissue. And unlike insect wings, feathers can be replaced. If the birds stay out of lethal range, they can simply lock their wings and glide to a (relatively) safe landing.

I don't think that feathers will protect from something that directly attacks the target.

Yeah, they won't stop a direct hit to the body, but the bird (as long as it doesn't fall too hard) won't have problems like infection and blood loss if it gets hit in the wing, and it won't be permanently grounded.
If we want a larger animal, on the other hand, bats all the way. Their larger size means they aren't as vulnerable to cold, and a membrane wing gets stronger with size, while a feathered wing gets weaker as it grows.

The problem with investing in an airforce this early is that we're not facing another airforce.  We can bomb them all we want, if we create artillery we can shell 'em, but if we don't have boots on the ground we will never own the land.  And right now we need to own the land.  Not to mention that these are likely going to wind up being an ineffectual waste of mana.  These are going to have to crack skulls, and you want us to make a songbird.  What are we going to do, drop pebbles from orbit?  This is why we need infantry, not bombers or fighters, those won't win us this battle, and if you need proof look at what happened with the Germans at Dunkirk.

[javierpwn]

Plant warriors riding on Umbral Bulls!
Own the Land!

[GreatWyrmGold]

Sooo are we or are we not gonna start army building yet?

Yes, it's definitely one of those.


Walls let us control the village, but I don't think an air force is the answer. Maybe an integrated approach like so:

1. Living walls that grow and heal quickly, perhaps a sponge/bamboo or coral/bamboo hybrid.
2. Enough tough infantrymen to deal with breaches, perhaps a hybrid of badger or wolverine with a beetle or turtle.
3. A large number of ranged attackers, because they're simply the best at hurting enemies before they hurt you. Ideally mobile. Perhaps modified bombardier beetles/skunks/spitting cobras/whatever, perhaps archers, perhaps something else. This should be our primary method of directly attacking the enemy.
4. Pests. Maybe a small, adaptable kind of bug that breeds fast, eats fast, and can go from antlike to spiderlike in a dozen generations (a month?). Perhaps with a give mind, both for coordination and control.
5. Air force. This should be small, but it can be deadly. Perhaps start with a bat or bird, then add size and either some kind of ranged attack or enough strength to drop big rocks in their heads. Probably the least important, as it has the most...issues.
6. Skirmishers, Cavalry, Scouts, and other such troops can probably be ignored, but planning is good.
7. Support. It's vital. Some kind of plant that makes a healing salve, a way to make walls to fix breeches or control the flow of enemies, trees that grow metal leaves, stuff like that.

[Sorcerer Kail]

Sooo are we or are we not gonna start army building yet?

Yes, it's definitely one of those.


Walls let us control the village, but I don't think an air force is the answer. Maybe an integrated approach like so:

1. Living walls that grow and heal quickly, perhaps a sponge/bamboo or coral/bamboo hybrid.
2. Enough tough infantrymen to deal with breaches, perhaps a hybrid of badger or wolverine with a beetle or turtle.
3. A large number of ranged attackers, because they're simply the best at hurting enemies before they hurt you. Ideally mobile. Perhaps modified bombardier beetles/skunks/spitting cobras/whatever, perhaps archers, perhaps something else. This should be our primary method of directly attacking the enemy.
4. Pests. Maybe a small, adaptable kind of bug that breeds fast, eats fast, and can go from antlike to spiderlike in a dozen generations (a month?). Perhaps with a give mind, both for coordination and control.
5. Air force. This should be small, but it can be deadly. Perhaps start with a bat or bird, then add size and either some kind of ranged attack or enough strength to drop big rocks in their heads. Probably the least important, as it has the most...issues.
6. Skirmishers, Cavalry, Scouts, and other such troops can probably be ignored, but planning is good.
7. Support. It's vital. Some kind of plant that makes a healing salve, a way to make walls to fix breeches or control the flow of enemies, trees that grow metal leaves, stuff like that.

Ad1. I would go with something like strong wood with resistant, quickly solidifying resin.  In most important places we could additionally use forcefields for protection and as quick breach blockade.
Ad2. Simpler concepts like Bear/wolf-man could work too.
Ad3. Spitting cobras out, they could go for closer ranges with paralyzing spit, but I believe spitting won't fly far enough.  Bombardier beetles will work, archers too but damn how we are going to create cheaply lots and lots of ammo?
Ad4. Mind for coordination, control and evolution. Controllable insect-zergs/tyranids.
Ad5. Small forces of stone droping rocks won't be as strong now, as we need them. They have to wait.
Ad6. I guess so, however few forwarded fortifications will make a mess in enemy army organisation and orders.
Ad7. We need to employ something else than life too. I mean everything we use in combat is based on a life magic. Then why we've picked Force and Darkness.
For darkness we can use it to hide forwarded fortifications and cast on commanders and sergeants so they won't know orders -> chaos ensures in their army. For force except quick wall hmm... We cast some barriers over our head so enemy won't shoot at use, assassinate major threats and what's most important stop some squads from advancing/retreating. In other words take full control over battlefield and decide whom we are fighting at moment. I'm lacking ideas for long term uses for it. Maybe some protection amulets, giving extra protection(on level of chainmail?), they shouldn't be more expansive than making one.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Reb1. Not sure how those trees would grow fast. And force fields are likely expensive.

Reb2. Meh. Nit enough defense. These ain't offensive troops, natural armor is more important than natural weapons.

Reb3. Cobras: Depends on our modifications. Ammo: Magical trees, probably. Maybe shrubs. Maybe flowers.

Reb4. Precisely.

Reb5. Not sure what you're saying, but I think I agree.

Reb6. How is that relevant to what I was addressing?

Reb7. Darkness is hard to really weaponize, and Force might be effective but would be expensive.

[Sorcerer Kail]

Reb1. Not sure how those trees would grow fast. And force fields are likely expensive.

Reb2. Meh. Nit enough defense. These ain't offensive troops, natural armor is more important than natural weapons.

Reb3. Cobras: Depends on our modifications. Ammo: Magical trees, probably. Maybe shrubs. Maybe flowers.

Reb4. Precisely.

Reb5. Not sure what you're saying, but I think I agree.

Reb6. How is that relevant to what I was addressing?

Reb7. Darkness is hard to really weaponize, and Force might be effective but would be expensive.

1 - That's why FF is for quick breach barricade
5 - No point in using air-units bombers if we've got only few. If it will become deadly we first have to develop either some explosive substance or chemical weaponry, stones won't kill too much of people. Actually that's not a bad idea. Chlorine or mustard gas deployed by few resistant birds could be damn deadly against living beings.
6 - Whoops messed it up.
7 - Why we think about all the force as being expansive. Life has to precisely manipulate structure of genes and millions individual objects, quickly create nutritious value(growing costs quite a lot of energy and stuff) and duplicate hundred of thousands cells in few seconds. That does look more complicated and requires a ton of energy. Usage of pure energy shouldn't cost more, or even cost less as you don't need to keep right heat, oxygen level and transport stuff to feed cells.
According to some data energy of 9 x 19 mm Parabellum is 584J. That concentrated in small point is quite deadly right? Punch contains around 250J from boxer. So combining 2-3 punches in one point will do similar effect to shooting from pistol. How much punches you can do? A lot while living on some food, and still you keep your body warm for few hours, thinking, moving and avoiding hits. So it should not be so expansive, considering that growth forces you to use much more energy.
If we additionally manage to make it activate only when something of high velocity comes we can save even more of energy. So actually force could be a lot more effective than life in terms of giving power. Surely it won't make soldiers, but it can serve as a equipment, armor and weapon.

[GreatWyrmGold]

1. A bit nervous about relying on it, but okay.

5. A few bombers bomb more than no bombers. How would they not be useful except in big numbers? (Not needed ATM, I agree with, but that goes whatever the number.)

7. Game-logic and a bit of what we've heard. Both indicate that big forcey things will cost a lot. Obviously we can use small amounts of force, but I suspect that its utility and high power ceiling come at the expense of efficiency.

[Sorcerer Kail]

1. A bit nervous about relying on it, but okay.

5. A few bombers bomb more than no bombers. How would they not be useful except in big numbers? (Not needed ATM, I agree with, but that goes whatever the number.)

7. Game-logic and a bit of what we've heard. Both indicate that big forcey things will cost a lot. Obviously we can use small amounts of force, but I suspect that its utility and high power ceiling come at the expense of efficiency.

1. Better than having nothing at all.
5. Well at start we wanted to drop some rocks, that would be pointless. With some chemical/biological weaponry few bombers could be deadly.
7.Ah, right bandit post, I've missed them. Well that makes lower level force under-powered imo. Still we can absorb energy. That worked without any cost against dagger. I believe it won't be expansive as its draining of force. Also high cost of force might be caused by initial cost, not actual force used.