Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[BigD145]

Also. Backstory is we're in the year 2550 and humanity have been in space for 500 years. I'd think the average person would be able to do some simple wiring and turn on a solar array through a very simple to use computer. Or at conceivably be able to do so. They would also probably leave it to the engineers if there were any.

We've had electricity for over a hundred years now. Very few people can do simple wiring without killing themselves. Some of those people consider science and technology to be evil while still living in homes with running clean water and lighting and two cars in the garage.

Setting up the singulo is an exception tough, since it's pretty much vital to everyone's fun.

The solars are enough and you need far less knowledge than the singu. Both require hardsuit work. Solars don't eat the station, but they can still be sabotaged from within the station. Power sinks are a lot more heinous against only solars.

[TheBronzePickle]

Presumably, wearing a hardsuit would be common knowledge just because it's one of the few pieces of safety gear that can save anyone's ass if something goes horribly wrong. Even if it wasn't NanoTransen providing the training, I'd imagine most of the crew would have at least tried to find a way to familiarize themselves with its use just to be on the safe side. Surely most of them are intelligent enough to recognize that there's very little that's safe about the station.

[Hanslanda]

Presumably, wearing a hardsuit would be common knowledge just because it's one of the few pieces of safety gear that can save anyone's ass if something goes horribly wrong. Even if it wasn't NanoTransen providing the training, I'd imagine most of the crew would have at least tried to find a way to familiarize themselves with its use just to be on the safe side. Surely most of them are intelligent enough to recognize that there's very little that's safe about the station.

I assume this: You're in space, the most hostile and deadly environment a human being can find themselves in outside the core of a planet or close orbit around a star. If you DON'T know how to wear a hardsuit/spacesuit, you deserve to die. Honestly, in any real space station, EVERYONE would have quick and easy access to a space suit of some sort, and jumpsuits would probably be pressurized/have automatic heating devices/other safety features.

[TheBronzePickle]

But this is Space Station 13, and not only is NanoTransen not willing to spend enough money on space suits for everyone, they're not even willing to give them a way to make more.

No, I'm not lobbying to make absolutely everything in the game able to be made or bought with the right work/research/resources, what makes you say that?

[kilakan]

theres also the matter with wiring in that even today highschools sometimes run wiring courses and such.  I for one have never been trained in wiring outside of school and I have more then enough knowledge to set up simple circuits and build little electronic devices.  Wiring a house or ((in this case)) solars would be incredibly easy for me.  Thats why I personally agree with the notion of 'you can do some things outside your job and still be within role-play ideals'  since if we wanna actually have characters who technically have lead thier own lives up till that point, well then normal people are not so 2d as to be jammed within a set job and have zero knowledge outside of that area of expertise.

But this is Space Station 13, and not only is NanoTransen not willing to spend enough money on space suits for everyone, they're not even willing to give them a way to make more.

No, I'm not lobbying to make absolutely everything in the game able to be made or bought with the right work/research/resources, what makes you say that?

Unless the reason theres not that many space suits there is because it's a research station, and they don't want people potentially escaping into space with thier research?

[scrdest]

Warning. Incoming wall of text. Warning.
tl;dr What are people allowed to know about antagonists?

Warning. Incoming wall of text. Warning.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(Note. I am not assigning blame or pointing fingers at anyone. None of this is intended as argumentative or accusatory. This is merely to request clarification and to elucidate how certain behaviours were not entirely uncalled for and possibly provoke discussion on what behaviours are permissible. No one should take offense from this, and if you somehow do, I hope you will reread it and attempt to see how it was intended to be taken.)

So start of the round we get a communication from Nanotransen that there are enemies of the corporation onboard along with some broad info on whom it might be.

So then the captain is running around with gear that doesn't belong to him, the station is going to hell with fires, and the HoS is gone with his ID laying on a floor. People are supposed to just let that go when they're in a command position? No. Theft is still theft, even if you're the captain.

I'd also like to quote something from the op here

Roleplay is encouraged on Urist McStation, but players will not be punished for minor slips of character.  For example, medical hacking doors is fine, security performing major surgery is frowned upon.

I'd say grabbing some handcuffs as the HoP in a potentially dangerous unknown situation is a relatively minor slip, if one at all.

In a case where the captain is acting suspiciously, the HoS is MIA, the HoP is the next in the chain of command and really the only head left with the authority to deal with it. In the case just explained a stun and search of the captain was totally in order. Now if there was a Warden or HoS around still, that would be different. Then the HoP should take his concerns to them and they decide what to do.

Also, under which space law does possessing traitor items fall? The only one it seems to me it could fall under is Enemy of the Corporation. Along with Possible Grand Theft for taking the HoS's things, that's one to two capital crimes. And in the absence of the HoS or warden and the Captain being the criminal I'd say the HoP was in their right to throw them in the permabrig.

And yes, you totally can permabrig without a trial. Trials are completely unnecessary, and are only to occur if the people in charge want it to. Says it right there on the wiki. This is a space-station, with limited personnel, full on trials are a rare privilege, not a right.


You can't shouldn't punish people for crossing boundaries you haven't placed. Nowhere does it say nobody knows traitor items mean traitors. There is no law aside from Enemy of the Corporation that might cover having traitor items. And if we're just supposed to flat out ignore traitor items unless they're clearly a weapon they're not supposed to have, does that mean the captain can walk around with an e-sword and we can't say anything?

If you're gonna punish this, YOU have to make it clear where the boundaries are. Who knows what about changeling, if anything? What exactly do traitor items signify and to whom? If they're not immediate recognition of Enemy of the Corporation, what law DO they fall under? What exactly do people know about the cult?

If you don't define it, other people will. And when their definitions clash, stuff like this happens. Nowhere is this clearly stated. I've looked on the wiki. Unless I'm missing some small arcanely hidden page not linked to by anywhere related, its not there.

 If you want a rule to be different here than on /tg/ then you have to say so. Like requiring trials rather than them being optional.

Also. Scrdest. A suggestion from the /tg/ station rules seems appropriate here.

2. You are playing a game where you are not fully in control of everything. You will be put into situations beyond your control, which will result in some rounds being ruined for you. Man up and deal with it.

It's the nature of the beast. If you really think its griefing, adminhelp and move on. I'm saying this in the nicest possible way.

(Note. I am not assigning blame or pointing fingers at anyone. None of this is intended as argumentative or accusatory. This is merely to request clarification and to elucidate how certain behaviours were not entirely uncalled for and possibly provoke discussion on what behaviours are permissible. No one should take offense from this, and if you somehow do, I hope you will reread it and attempt to see how it was intended to be taken.)

Also. Backstory is we're in the year 2550 and humanity have been in space for 500 years. I'd think the average person would be able to do some simple wiring and turn on a solar array through a very simple to use computer. Or at conceivably be able to do so. They would also probably leave it to the engineers if there were any.

I was going to answer but accidentally erased it D:. Tl;Dr - there are laws, Possesion of Restricted Weapon/Explosives and (Grand) Sabotage. You shouldn't be able to robust someone for having a paint job on their toolbox or a different-looking bar of soap or having a balloon, on the other hand. BS12 has a page with their canon, but I don't know how much of these applies to us. And Execution is preferable to Permabrig, because dead people can at very least observe what else is going on, meanwhile Permabrig is KTHANKSBYEROUNDLOCKOUT.

[Glloyd]

meanwhile Permabrig is KTHANKSBYEROUNDLOCKOUT.

Not really, unless you're straightjacketed. The new permabrig is DESIGNED for escape attempts, and since its introduction, has seen MULTIPLE escape attempts. Some sucessful, others not. Some insane, some not. Well, mostly insane.

[Hanslanda]

meanwhile Permabrig is KTHANKSBYEROUNDLOCKOUT.

Not really, unless you're straightjacketed. The new permabrig is DESIGNED for escape attempts, and since its introduction, has seen MULTIPLE escape attempts. Some sucessful, others not. Some insane, some not. Well, mostly insane.

I escaped from permabrig with a fork. Granted, a random event helped me out here, but still. A fork.

[Girlinhat]

Changing subject.  Any thoughts on AI rulings?  Two things in particular:

1: Last night, a non-Malf AI bolted xeno and refused to open it.  We ended up carding him.  Because slimes can be dangerous, he absolutely refused to let anyone in, even the research staff.

2: Last round, I played AI and the CE built walls around doors because atmosphere was leaking.  The doors were already bolted shut and the captain had gone into space (with hardsuit) to find someone.  The CE walked up and walled it over so the captain couldn't get back in except through maintenance.  I suggested giving the CE a few baton hits and people start saying I'm Malf for suggesting harm - there's a difference between harm and discipline.

Clearly we need some house rules on exactly how much that First Law governs anything.  I mean, if we're gonna take it to the extreme then during an AI round I should just bolt every door.  Humans cannot starve, but they may injure themselves or each other, therefor locking them in small closets is the most ideal situation for protection.

People take the laws far too literally sometimes...

[scrdest]

meanwhile Permabrig is KTHANKSBYEROUNDLOCKOUT.

Not really, unless you're straightjacketed. The new permabrig is DESIGNED for escape attempts, and since its introduction, has seen MULTIPLE escape attempts. Some sucessful, others not. Some insane, some not. Well, mostly insane.

Seriously? I didn't get to see any, and cannot think of anything aside from being broken out.

You cannot try the northern windows, electrified. If someone opens the door, there is still another door behind it, and then Brig, which is generally not the place you want to escape to. If you want to try to get to Armory, you need a whole lot of tools and time to breach the walls. At least half of the other walls cover void. Ideas?

meanwhile Permabrig is KTHANKSBYEROUNDLOCKOUT.

Not really, unless you're straightjacketed. The new permabrig is DESIGNED for escape attempts, and since its introduction, has seen MULTIPLE escape attempts. Some sucessful, others not. Some insane, some not. Well, mostly insane.

I escaped from permabrig with a fork. Granted, a random event helped me out here, but still. A fork.

Gr3y T1de virus?

[ThtblovesDF]

Yeah had much the same issues in some rounds, with AI bolting down toxins and other areas and refusing to give it up and then refuses checkups, causing indirect death by accusing anyone trying to check on them of being a traitor (in much more fancy words). Annoying players more then AI, I'd think...

[Urist_McGamer]

Changing subject.  Any thoughts on AI rulings?  Two things in particular:

1: Last night, a non-Malf AI bolted xeno and refused to open it.  We ended up carding him.  Because slimes can be dangerous, he absolutely refused to let anyone in, even the research staff.

2: Last round, I played AI and the CE built walls around doors because atmosphere was leaking.  The doors were already bolted shut and the captain had gone into space (with hardsuit) to find someone.  The CE walked up and walled it over so the captain couldn't get back in except through maintenance.  I suggested giving the CE a few baton hits and people start saying I'm Malf for suggesting harm - there's a difference between harm and discipline.

Clearly we need some house rules on exactly how much that First Law governs anything.  I mean, if we're gonna take it to the extreme then during an AI round I should just bolt every door.  Humans cannot starve, but they may injure themselves or each other, therefor locking them in small closets is the most ideal situation for protection.

People take the laws far too literally sometimes...

That might make for an interesting round. The AI, in its infinite wisdom, decides that the best way to prevent human harm is to prevent the station crew from doing anything and thus tries to lock everyone up in closets so they can be safe FOREVER.

[Girlinhat]

Not really, unless you're straightjacketed. The new permabrig is DESIGNED for escape attempts, and since its introduction, has seen MULTIPLE escape attempts. Some sucessful, others not. Some insane, some not. Well, mostly insane.

I've been in permabrig.  I was LUCKY to get a station-bounced-radio just so that I wasn't locked out of the round forever.  The only 'tool' is an emergency O2 tank that you can use to break the window (assuming you're not caught too quickly) or to kill yourself (they'll revive you).  And getting out the window is just another suicide attempt anyways.

The only real way 'out' is to wait for a guard to open the door and rush through.  But then you're just in the hallway, I guess it's 'technically' an escape attempt...

Unless you know something creative to do with soap that we're not aware of.

[Vactor]

I mean, if we're gonna take it to the extreme then during an AI round I should just bolt every door.  Humans cannot starve, but they may injure themselves or each other, therefor locking them in small closets is the most ideal situation for protection.

Personally I think that the state of the station and staff at the start of the round should be presumed safe by the AI.  The AI should then respond reactively to the events that unfold, and changes to the station.  Proactively locking down the station, while it is a possible interpretation of the Laws, falls into the "not fun for anyone else" category.   All jobs can be done safely if done correctly.  The AI should presume that the people in that dept are capable of performing the job correctly until proven otherwise.

[Girlinhat]

I mean, if we're gonna take it to the extreme then during an AI round I should just bolt every door.  Humans cannot starve, but they may injure themselves or each other, therefor locking them in small closets is the most ideal situation for protection.

Personally I think that the state of the station and staff at the start of the round should be presumed safe by the AI.  The AI should then respond reactively to the events that unfold, and changes to the station.  Proactively locking down the station, while it is a possible interpretation of the Laws, falls into the "not fun for anyone else" category.   All jobs can be done safely if done correctly.  The AI should presume that the people in that dept are capable of performing the job correctly until proven otherwise.

Due to the literal interpretation of laws by so many people, I'd suggest to push in a law somewhere, probably right between 1 and 2, "Any crew certified to a job is considered safe in such environment until emergency requires aid."