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[miauw62]

Alright, let's stop it, then, but you can't expect everyone to interpret the lore exactly as you do.

E: Btw, can somebody code-dive and see what causes these random hallucinations? I was working in the warehouse as QM when my health indicator suddenly states that I'm in crit.

E2: Nvm, looks like it was radiation.

[BigD145]

Just a note on meta job changes, many things can be explained by roleplaying.

Maybe the clown used to be an engineer before. Maybe the AI talks him through. Many things can happen.

I keep separate characters for this. One is a tech sort of engineer/scientist. The other is more of a clean stuff up janitor/doctor/food prep/civie. Not a clown/captain/CE/RD/CMO/syndie. If I'm RP'ing something I IC don't know that might be on the wiki, I fumble for awhile. I try X and Y together until I finally stumble on X and B without looking at the wiki.

[ThtblovesDF]

----
 If we ever did this (going public), we'd HAVE to eliminate any inactive admins and recruit more, ensuring that each one is a quality admin. So either we stay small and safe, or become big and having griefers be rather commonplace.
....

I'd suggest that you also have to eliminate incompetent admins that cause more issues then they solve, but self-termination is a bit rough on the ego, aye?

It's silly, but it works well for my servers[context: Not always ss13 servers]; Setup some rules, just for admins. Real simple and obvious stuff, but ensure its enforced and that people start off with a culture of checking on each other.

-Trial admin phases

-1st Ban worthy offence => Timed ban. Perma bans should never be the very first response to a issue, getting a new beyond id and even hardware ID (which many bans are based on) is very easy and if you anger someone, they can easily grief the hell out of the server on there own, avoiding all bans until you ban the ip range and then you're just crippling your userbase (and even that might not stop some).

-State a ban reason, either in your ban-statement (No, one word things like "Idiot" "robustedme" "noraison" are not okay) or in a quick pm exchange with a player. I used to have that you have to provide a screenshot or log with the ban cause, but that was quite effortful, so you can either have that for trial/junior admins or/and only in the case of perma bans.

-Keep track. Who was banned, why? The ss13 admin interface provides nice ways to input that information, so make use of it!

-For all that is holy, if you are community manger or server owner, please, go "undercover" on your own server, login with a different beyond account and watch the powercraze of some admins (not releated to this server, yet). Then don't be shy about removing them.

-Regulate punishments somewhat. Admin A will give you a jobban from CE and atmos tech for flooding the station with n20. Admin B will perma ban you if you add 90% oČ instead of 80%.

[Girlinhat]

I'll say this briefly on meta-job-changes: If you're in space, you know certain things.  Engineering, security, and mining are the only ones with hardsuits, and yet EVERY Nantrausen employee knows how to wear one.  Some knowledge is just 'basic space knowledge' and every given individual should know how to wire solars, begin cloning (though they likely don't know how to handle genetic defects), weld vents shut, and other such basics.  That's just basic emergency knowledge, same as every real person knows how to escape a burning building, every space person should be aware of how to wire a solar array.  Especially if AI is available, then the player's job is just laying some wire and letting the AI set the SMES.

On meta-RP: Let yourself fail some!  There's a LOT of instances of players using meta knowledge to avoid things.  Like doc says you've got appendicitis.  The player knows the medical scanner is the only method of detection.  The character then demands a scanner and denies it.  That sort of thing is directly anti-RP.  In my own round, I was a caught traitor who had gender change and plastic surgery, and my real fingerprints were found out.  Despite this, during my trial where I was deemed guilty, the entire crew revolted against the captain, HoS, and HoP and threw them in the brig.  Every player knew I was guilty, and yet every character followed their role, and we all loved it.

A huge part of the game is to act as your character.  Make requests of other jobs.  And don't do the doctor's job.  The doctor is already useless, at least let them smear you with ointment!

[Knirisk]

Guys, just so you know, this is rapidly turning into SS13's previous threads. Stop it.

As to going public, no, just no. I'd prefer that we keep our current elements fun and just stick to tg source. We definitely don't have enough coders to go off and make our own edition, and we'll never have enough coders unless we go public. However, going public is terrible and means hell for the admins, hell for the actual players, and just hell in general.

Loosely in response to scrdest's post, and from personal experience ... Can we get some clarity on what level of meta is appropriate?

I think that part of what makes this server good is that we have players who are playing to have fun with each other, not necessarily playing for "wins".

I've waded through various logs regarding complaints about players, and I have seen people inadvertently Metaing themselves in response to suspected Metaing by other players.  The hunt and accusations of Meta seems to have caused more problems and hurt feelings than any Metaing has caused.

Thank you.

I'll say this briefly on meta-job-changes: If you're in space, you know certain things.  Engineering, security, and mining are the only ones with hardsuits, and yet EVERY Nantrausen employee knows how to wear one.  Some knowledge is just 'basic space knowledge' and every given individual should know how to wire solars, begin cloning (though they likely don't know how to handle genetic defects), weld vents shut, and other such basics.  That's just basic emergency knowledge, same as every real person knows how to escape a burning building, every space person should be aware of how to wire a solar array.  Especially if AI is available, then the player's job is just laying some wire and letting the AI set the SMES.

Thank you. These are pretty much my thoughts.

[BigD145]

A little more meta talk: major point being in bold.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I don't know about everyone knowing how to wire a solar array. Suits are fine. You're in a space station. There's space out there and it likes to come in. But solars? If everyone was supposed to be able to wire solars they'd have access to solars, which they do not. Nanotrasen wants engineers on the solar arrays, not a chaplain who has access to the tunnels behind one of the solars but not all tunnels. Janitors have access to tunnels, but they do not have access to the solars. Does basic sec even have access to solars? They have their own hardsuits, but that's mostly to deal with perps hiding outside and carp. Most jobs do not have access to space suits, but everyone gets internals. Everyone knows enough to put on internals and run through broken sections of the station to safe points beyond. If it's too far, someone with a suit can drag you and/or stuff you in a locker. There is a level of "you must rely on others to do their job because you can't do their job."

My first time as a doctor was fun. I knew how to heal brute damage and did so while repeatedly fumbling around at trying to perform surgery, which I did not know. I healed the damage I continually caused until I finally figured out the right combination of tools to get an appendix out. *stab*inject*stab*inject* I could have opened the wiki instead of failing a bunch for probably 10-20 minutes. Anesthetic? What's that? And where is it?

[Girlinhat]

Anesthetic? What's that? And where is it?

Try working in robotics.  Your anesthetic is a crowbar.

[BigD145]

Anesthetic? What's that? And where is it?

Try working in robotics.  Your anesthetic is a crowbar.

Ah, but Doctors are not Roboticists. Given that my character was a med school janitor a bucket or mop might have been a better choice. It's too bad I didn't have access to those.

[Scelly9]

There's anesthetic in the lockers.

[miauw62]

Yeah.

[Nick K]

On meta-job-changing... a big question for me is whether RPing ignorance makes the round more or less fun for people.

If there's someone playing a doctor  or engineer or whatever then let them do their job, or it makes the round less fun for them. If there's no active engineers and the power shouts out though then an awful lot of people end up just sitting bored in the dark with nothing to do. If fixing that means the mime suddenly remembering how to set up the singularity engine, then I say go for it.

Same goes for genetic defects. Quite a few of them are absolutely crippling and I've spent an hour just sitting in medbay mostly paralysed because I had tourettes and couldn't move. That wasn't fun at all, and really just turns the round into "alt-tab to something else, check back every 15 minutes". If there's a geneticist, chemist, CMO or whatever then let them do their job and tell them how OOC if they don't know... but if not, then I would have been delighted for just anyone to hand out some clean SEs.

To change the subject, sorry to GR for ordering the borg to kill you in that last round, but I didn't see another safe way out of the situation. I thought I'd been frightfully subtle with covering up the murder, but I was taking the victim's brain to the upload for cyborgisation and I couldn't let you find it in my pack. I was hoping to borg you later but the machines were bugged and I figured you'd get back playing quicker if I called the shuttle. Also sorry for snapping at you over the whole "IC over OOC" thing - that was rude and I'd like to apologise.

[BigD145]

There's anesthetic in the lockers.

<--- Was not a surgeon. Was never shown anesthetic at the time. Was basically told, "If someone needs surgery don't touch them. Find qualified personnel." There were none. Patient asked for help so I tried my best. If a borg had asked me to change their battery I probably would have ended up destroying them in the process.

[Kaitol]

Warning. Incoming wall of text. Warning.
tl;dr What are people allowed to know about antagonists?

Warning. Incoming wall of text. Warning.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(Note. I am not assigning blame or pointing fingers at anyone. None of this is intended as argumentative or accusatory. This is merely to request clarification and to elucidate how certain behaviours were not entirely uncalled for and possibly provoke discussion on what behaviours are permissible. No one should take offense from this, and if you somehow do, I hope you will reread it and attempt to see how it was intended to be taken.)

So start of the round we get a communication from Nanotransen that there are enemies of the corporation onboard along with some broad info on whom it might be.

So then the captain is running around with gear that doesn't belong to him, the station is going to hell with fires, and the HoS is gone with his ID laying on a floor. People are supposed to just let that go when they're in a command position? No. Theft is still theft, even if you're the captain.

I'd also like to quote something from the op here

Roleplay is encouraged on Urist McStation, but players will not be punished for minor slips of character.  For example, medical hacking doors is fine, security performing major surgery is frowned upon.

I'd say grabbing some handcuffs as the HoP in a potentially dangerous unknown situation is a relatively minor slip, if one at all.

In a case where the captain is acting suspiciously, the HoS is MIA, the HoP is the next in the chain of command and really the only head left with the authority to deal with it. In the case just explained a stun and search of the captain was totally in order. Now if there was a Warden or HoS around still, that would be different. Then the HoP should take his concerns to them and they decide what to do.

Also, under which space law does possessing traitor items fall? The only one it seems to me it could fall under is Enemy of the Corporation. Along with Possible Grand Theft for taking the HoS's things, that's one to two capital crimes. And in the absence of the HoS or warden and the Captain being the criminal I'd say the HoP was in their right to throw them in the permabrig.

And yes, you totally can permabrig without a trial. Trials are completely unnecessary, and are only to occur if the people in charge want it to. Says it right there on the wiki. This is a space-station, with limited personnel, full on trials are a rare privilege, not a right.


You can't shouldn't punish people for crossing boundaries you haven't placed. Nowhere does it say nobody knows traitor items mean traitors. There is no law aside from Enemy of the Corporation that might cover having traitor items. And if we're just supposed to flat out ignore traitor items unless they're clearly a weapon they're not supposed to have, does that mean the captain can walk around with an e-sword and we can't say anything?

If you're gonna punish this, YOU have to make it clear where the boundaries are. Who knows what about changeling, if anything? What exactly do traitor items signify and to whom? If they're not immediate recognition of Enemy of the Corporation, what law DO they fall under? What exactly do people know about the cult?

If you don't define it, other people will. And when their definitions clash, stuff like this happens. Nowhere is this clearly stated. I've looked on the wiki. Unless I'm missing some small arcanely hidden page not linked to by anywhere related, its not there.

 If you want a rule to be different here than on /tg/ then you have to say so. Like requiring trials rather than them being optional.

Also. Scrdest. A suggestion from the /tg/ station rules seems appropriate here.

2. You are playing a game where you are not fully in control of everything. You will be put into situations beyond your control, which will result in some rounds being ruined for you. Man up and deal with it.

It's the nature of the beast. If you really think its griefing, adminhelp and move on. I'm saying this in the nicest possible way.

(Note. I am not assigning blame or pointing fingers at anyone. None of this is intended as argumentative or accusatory. This is merely to request clarification and to elucidate how certain behaviours were not entirely uncalled for and possibly provoke discussion on what behaviours are permissible. No one should take offense from this, and if you somehow do, I hope you will reread it and attempt to see how it was intended to be taken.)

Also. Backstory is we're in the year 2550 and humanity have been in space for 500 years. I'd think the average person would be able to do some simple wiring and turn on a solar array through a very simple to use computer. Or at conceivably be able to do so. They would also probably leave it to the engineers if there were any.

[Hanslanda]

If there is someone holding that job, you shouldn't do it. But if there is no one to do it, and you HAVE to have that job done, do it without Wiki assistance. I think that would be the best bet. I mean, hacking doors and taking windows apart is one thing. But major surgery, setting up the singularity, making bombs, breeding slimes, dicking around with Atmos, or any other technically involved subject should be left to the professionals.

[miauw62]

Just a note, I would always give a trial if the situation allows it, because I like trials.


Setting up the singulo is an exception tough, since it's pretty much vital to everyone's fun.