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[GlyphGryph]

Yeah, I just want to reiterate, my only opposition to things like "Oxygen Is Toxic" was in relation to trying to add that as JUST a law with a freeform module.

I've assumed thematically that the prebuilt modules have significantly more going on with them than inserting a law. Otherwise, they... don't make any sense, for the reasons I've stated. But I think it's an acceptable assumption, since they take so much more to make. But if I was AI and got one of those prewritten hardcoded modules, yes, I would follow it, under the assumption that's not changing my laws so much as some core component related to how I process them. Honestly, convincing a 3-laws robot to kill all the other humans wouldn't really be a super difficult task if you've got access - but it couldn't be accomplished simply by changing a law, imo.

What I wouldn't obey is a freeform module attempting to do the same thing by claiming that a freeform law addition would be enough. It wouldn't.

[Android]

Nobody is saying that a one human law shouldn't be obeyed by the AI player.  But for many of us, we agree with the TG decision that it should be a 0th law, so it isn't overridden by law 1.

TG never said that. They say (which I posted the chatlog on) that changing the definition of human in a lower law is valid.

[Vactor]

Nobody is saying that a one human law shouldn't be obeyed by the AI player.  But for many of us, we agree with the TG decision that it should be a 0th law, so it isn't overridden by law 1.

TG never said that. They say (which I posted the chatlog on) that changing the definition of human in a lower law is valid.

I'm talking about the decision to make the one human module upload a 0th law instead of a 4th+ law.

[Ivefan]

I find it amusing that we keep comming back to ai behaviour discussions. Bay12 must have another kind of mindset than other ss13 forums.

[Android]

Nobody is saying that a one human law shouldn't be obeyed by the AI player.  But for many of us, we agree with the TG decision that it should be a 0th law, so it isn't overridden by law 1.

TG never said that. They say (which I posted the chatlog on) that changing the definition of human in a lower law is valid.

I'm talking about the decision to make the one human module upload a 0th law instead of a 4th+ law.

Because they put it behind an ID-locked door in an area covered by AI's turrets?

Edit: I just did some code diving, and I see a reason they made it Law 0 is to make it easier for a traitor AI to know if someone is (pointlessly) trying to override the Law 0; the AI gets a notification that someone tried to upload a law 0 but the new law doesnt take.

I find it amusing that we keep comming back to ai behaviour discussions. Bay12 must have another kind of mindset than other ss13 forums.

Yeah I am ready for this to be over.

[miauw62]

I find it amusing that we keep comming back to ai behaviour discussions. Bay12 must have another kind of mindset than other ss13 forums.

Yeah I am ready for this to be over.

Make the Japanese Schoolgirl board a thing!
If our demands are not met, we WILL continue discussing this!

[My Name is Immaterial]

I find it amusing that we keep comming back to ai behaviour discussions. Bay12 must have another kind of mindset than other ss13 forums.

Yeah I am ready for this to be over.

Make the Japanese Schoolgirl board a thing!
If our demands are not met, we WILL continue discussing this!

What is this... Japanese Schoolgirl thing you speak of?

[miauw62]

I find it amusing that we keep comming back to ai behaviour discussions. Bay12 must have another kind of mindset than other ss13 forums.

Yeah I am ready for this to be over.

Make the Japanese Schoolgirl board a thing!
If our demands are not met, we WILL continue discussing this!

What is this... Japanese Schoolgirl thing you speak of?

4. You are a Japense schoolgirl that is in love with the heads

Optionally, make it so you can write a specific name instead of the heads.

"You are a Japanese schoolgirl that is in love with all security officers."
"You are a Japanese schoolgirl that is in love with Ian."

[Girlinhat]

I find it amusing that we keep comming back to ai behaviour discussions. Bay12 must have another kind of mindset than other ss13 forums.

Yeah I am ready for this to be over.

Make the Japanese Schoolgirl board a thing!
If our demands are not met, we WILL continue discussing this!

What is this... Japanese Schoolgirl thing you speak of?

4. You are a Japense schoolgirl that is in love with the heads

Optionally, make it so you can write a specific name instead of the heads.

"You are a Japanese schoolgirl that is in love with all security officers."
"You are a Japanese schoolgirl that is in love with Ian."

"You are a Japanese schoolgirl in a poorly written anime who must decide which of the heads to date."

[USEC_OFFICER]

Make the Japanese Schoolgirl board a thing!
If our demands are not met, we WILL continue discussing this!

The only problem with the board is if you give it to an AI who has no idea how to act like a Japanese Schoolgirl. Like me (won't stop me from supporting the idea though).

[Hanslanda]

Make the Japanese Schoolgirl board a thing!
If our demands are not met, we WILL continue discussing this!

The only problem with the board is if you give it to an AI who has no idea how to act like a Japanese Schoolgirl. Like me (won't stop me from supporting the idea though).

Same here. I'd go 'Error: File 'Japanese Schoolgirl behavioral patterns' not found.' and then just change all my L's to R's.

[BigD145]

I find it amusing that we keep comming back to ai behaviour discussions. Bay12 must have another kind of mindset than other ss13 forums.

Yeah I am ready for this to be over.

Make the Japanese Schoolgirl board a thing!
If our demands are not met, we WILL continue discussing this!

What is this... Japanese Schoolgirl thing you speak of?

4. You are a Japense schoolgirl that is in love with the heads

Optionally, make it so you can write a specific name instead of the heads.

"You are a Japanese schoolgirl that is in love with all security officers."
"You are a Japanese schoolgirl that is in love with Ian."

"You are a Japanese schoolgirl in a poorly written anime who must decide which of the heads to date."

CE. Engineering can touch all of the stations pipes and wiring.
"Someone ruined my back hallway. You could drive a shuttle through the hole. Won't someone repair me?"

[Damiac]

So, can we agree that the consensus on Vactor's server is as follows:

Hard coded modules must be followed by AIs, including causing them to no longer consider certain people humans, as defined by the law.
Freeform modules are up to the AI whether or not it will follow it. (Is there anything obvious so the AI knows whether or not it's a freeform?)
Traitor generated hacked modules must be followed by the AI (This is easy, because they come in as < 1.)
Japanese schoolgirl modules are to be included in the next update, or else!

This seems to be what everyone is indicating on this discussion.  It makes sense from a gameplay perspective, as we discussed, the freeform is simply too powerful as it stands now, especially considering that it's so easy to get.

[Fayrik]

Am I the only person who DOESN'T need a physical law to tell me how act?
Laws are there to ensure that the AI doesn't go murdering everyone, at the threat of being outright banned - and of course, allowing them to be converted to a traitor mid game. Beyond that laws have no use.
If the RD tells me I'm to act like a Japanese Schoolgirl, I damn well act like a Japanese Schoolgirl, no silly building of modules or any of that nonsense.

[Damiac]

Fayrik, that's the way AI works.  The physical laws are what makes the AI act. Laws have no use? Laws ARE the AI, you have to form the way you play the AI around those laws.  Are you saying if someone purges you as an AI, then puts in Antimov laws, you're just going to ignore them? If you kill with asimov, you broke your laws, and should be dealt with OOC. If you DON'T try to kill with Antimov, you are equally guilty of breaking your laws, and should be dealt with OOC.

I'm not saying AI players should get banned for every little screw up, it's a hard job.  I'm just saying there IS a right way to play AI, and that is following your laws.  You can exploit every little loophole, and have whatever personality you want. But you can't just ignore them.