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[Culise]

And that would be relevant if the refugees would spread out perfectly evenly with the rest of the population, but they won't. They'll move to the same places where there'll be almost no Europeans and make proper integration impossible.

Which is why the Midwest is considered so unamerican.  The people of German ancestry all moved there and of course they would never assimilate to the english speaking majority if they were living in German neighborhoods.  My brother moved to Michigan and I dont recognize him anymore.  He is always eating these weird German foods like sausage and pretzels and celebrating weird German holidays like Christmas.  And the language!  He uses these weird German words like "Hello", "Kindergarten" or "Fuhrer".

Actually, the midwest is the real American. It's all the people on the coasts with their italian and mexican foods and their fish that are the unamerican ones.

Ya, you betcha.  Ya gotta get together, have a potluck with hotdishes, potato salads, Jello salads, meatballs, maybe some lefse or lutefisk.  That's the real American way, don'tcha know?

[FearfulJesuit]

And that would be relevant if the refugees would spread out perfectly evenly with the rest of the population, but they won't. They'll move to the same places where there'll be almost no Europeans and make proper integration impossible.

Which is why the Midwest is considered so unamerican.  The people of German ancestry all moved there and of course they would never assimilate to the english speaking majority if they were living in German neighborhoods.  My brother moved to Michigan and I dont recognize him anymore.  He is always eating these weird German foods like sausage and pretzels and celebrating weird German holidays like Christmas.  And the language!  He uses these weird German words like "Hello", "Kindergarten" or "Fuhrer".

Actually, the midwest is the real American. It's all the people on the coasts with their italian and mexican foods and their fish that are the unamerican ones.

Ya, you betcha.  Ya gotta get together, have a potluck with hotdishes, potato salads, Jello salads, meatballs, maybe some lefse or lutefisk.  That's the real American way.

*internal Boston Brahmin screams*

[nenjin]

And that would be relevant if the refugees would spread out perfectly evenly with the rest of the population, but they won't. They'll move to the same places where there'll be almost no Europeans and make proper integration impossible.

Which is why the Midwest is considered so unamerican.  The people of German ancestry all moved there and of course they would never assimilate to the english speaking majority if they were living in German neighborhoods.  My brother moved to Michigan and I dont recognize him anymore.  He is always eating these weird German foods like sausage and pretzels and celebrating weird German holidays like Christmas.  And the language!  He uses these weird German words like "Hello", "Kindergarten" or "Fuhrer".

Actually, the midwest is the real American. It's all the people on the coasts with their italian and mexican foods and their fish that are the unamerican ones.

Ya, you betcha.  Ya gotta get together, have a potluck with hotdishes, potato salads, Jello salads, meatballs, maybe some lefse or lutefisk.  That's the real American way, don'tcha know?

You forgot to cover all that with ranch dressing as the final step. But you are forgiven.

[scriver]

And that would be relevant if the refugees would spread out perfectly evenly with the rest of the population, but they won't. They'll move to the same places where there'll be almost no Europeans and make proper integration impossible.

What exactly do you mean by 'integration' here? Speaking the same language?

Speaking the same language is only part of integration. Language just signals to others where you are from and what you identify with. Real integration primarily involves becoming part of the mindscape and culture of their new nation.

And that would be relevant if the refugees would spread out perfectly evenly with the rest of the population, but they won't. They'll move to the same places where there'll be almost no Europeans and make proper integration impossible.

Which is why the Midwest is considered so unamerican.  The people of German ancestry all moved there and of course they would never assimilate to the english speaking majority if they were living in German neighborhoods.  My brother moved to Michigan and I dont recognize him anymore.  He is always eating these weird German foods like sausage and pretzels and celebrating weird German holidays like Christmas.  And the language!  He uses these weird German words like "Hello", "Kindergarten" or "Fuhrer".

America is different as in it a country of immigrant culture, but it's not as if the US hasn't got her own problems with integration, you just picked one example that's gone well (as if anyone would ever have claimed Germans would have had a hard time integrating into whatever you consider "american" culture to be - I presume the English-American part). An example of people not integrating well would be that people to in fact speak English instead of Sioux or an Algonquian language.

[Vilanat]

I don't know what the capacity Europe could take but i am guessing it wont be able to cope with the current numbers.

Europe isn't a boat, there isn't some maximum capacity before it starts sinking. But even if we imagine there is, we're a long long way from that point. The entire population of Syria, Eritrea and Libya could comfortably be spread out over just the wealthiest of European countries (and obviously most people don't want to move).

Let's put this in context: the population of the biggest city in the world, Shanghai (24m) is bigger than the entire population of Syria (22m). There's 742 million people in Europe, and only 4 million Syrian refugees (and a bunch less of other kinds). These refugees are a drop in the ocean. It's basically just nativist prejudice that's keeping them out. Super fences and guard patrols and detention centres are definitely not what's needed.

So what is the imaginary limit the European Union can cope with financially and socially?
(And btw, last i heard, Turkey and Russia weren't included in the EU and if Syria or Shanghai inhabitants would move to the EU overnight, they would become the 7th largest state in it.)

[SirQuiamus]

Here's a funny little fact: Around 500 000 Finns have emigrated into Sweden between the 1950s and present day, and despite decades of "unrestricted mass immigration" from developing countries, they still make up the largest foreign-born demographic in Sweden. Many Finnish expatriates were originally from extremely poor circumstances, and back in the 60s and 70s they were regarded as the official "niggers" of Sweden, i.e. the ones that were deemed impossible to integrate due to "cultural differences" and whatnot. In those days there was plenty of talk about alcoholism and elevated crime rates associated with the immigrant population, and the press came up with a number of highly successful memes featuring the "Slussen Guerrilla," a bunch of booze-peddling delinquent Finns who had taken over the sluice area in central Stockholm. Cue forward a forty years, and absolutely no-one in Sweden pays any attention to people of Finnish origin, or even considers them "foreigners" in any meaningful sense of the word. Even the highly xenophobic Sweden Democrats are now welcoming Finns as fellow members of the Nordic Master Race, which is totally arbitrary bollocks since Finns, like other Uralic peoples, are genetically far removed from Germanic Europeans.

The refugee crisis is an enormous challenge for the faltering welfare state, but such challenges have been overcome before, and in less affluent times.

[Loud Whispers]

500,000 people over the period of 60 years. We get that in 2 years.

[Sergarr]

500,000 people over the period of 60 years. We get that in 2 years.

Does it matter?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I mean, it's not impossible, the US gets just under a million people every year, and that number used to be way higher.

[mainiac]

And that would be relevant if the refugees would spread out perfectly evenly with the rest of the population, but they won't. They'll move to the same places where there'll be almost no Europeans and make proper integration impossible.

Which is why the Midwest is considered so unamerican.  The people of German ancestry all moved there and of course they would never assimilate to the english speaking majority if they were living in German neighborhoods.  My brother moved to Michigan and I dont recognize him anymore.  He is always eating these weird German foods like sausage and pretzels and celebrating weird German holidays like Christmas.  And the language!  He uses these weird German words like "Hello", "Kindergarten" or "Fuhrer".

Actually, the midwest is the real American. It's all the people on the coasts with their italian and mexican foods and their fish that are the unamerican ones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xECUrlnXCqk

you just picked one example that's gone well

No, I just picked one example that was more then two generations in the past.  At the time immigrants are hated.  Two generations later, nobody can remember what the fuss is about and you get college professors talking about the history of discrimination against immigrants a "myth".

[Loud Whispers]

500,000 people over the period of 60 years. We get that in 2 years.

Does it matter?

Yep. Any problem from infrastructure to integration, assimilation to enrichment - ramp everything to 100. More people, shorter time, graver situation.

Also from the same page:

A government study in 2006 estimated that 5% of the total adult population and 39% of adult Muslims "harbour systematic antisemitic views". In March 2010, Fredrik Sieradzk of the Jewish community of Malmö told Die Presse, an Austrian Internet publication, that Jews are being "harassed and physically attacked" by "people from the Middle East," although he added that only a small number of Malmö's 40,000 Muslims "exhibit hatred of Jews."

Sieradzk also stated that approximately 30 Jewish families have emigrated from Malmö to Israel in the past year, specifically to escape from harassment estimating that the already small Jewish population is shrinking by 5% a year. “Malmö is a place to move away from, right now many Jews in Malmö are really concerned about the situation and don’t believe they have a future here” he said, citing anti-Semitism as the primary reason. The Swedish newspaper Skånska Dagbladet reported that attacks on Jews in Malmö totalled 79 in 2009, about twice as many as the previous year, according to police statistics.

Immigrants are over-represented in Sweden's crime statistics. In a study by the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention in 1997–2001, 25% of the almost 1,520,000 offences were found to be committed by people born abroad and almost 20% were committed by Swedish born people of foreign background. In the study, immigrants were found to be four times more likely to be investigated for lethal violence and robbery than ethnic Swedes. In addition, immigrants were three times more likely to be investigated for violent assault, and five times more likely to be investigated for sex crimes. Those from North Africa and Western Asia were overrepresented

I mean, it's not impossible, the US gets just under a million people every year, and that number used to be way higher.

So all you need to be is be a fucking massive country with unquestioning supply to the vastest wealth in the world. I don't think my nation is quite there yet.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

You know as an anti-islamist and far-right nationalist I find liberal EU reaction on Syrian refugees crisis very funny.

I really expected something better than millions screaming "build a huge wall and let them go somewhere else"

[Kot]

You know as an anti-islamist and far-right nationalist I find liberal EU reaction on Syrian refugees crisis very funny.

I really expected something better than millions screaming "build a huge wall and let them go somewhere else"

Last time when Germany made a radical solution to similar problem, they got whole world bombing them with hate.

[scriver]

And the many Greeks and Italians that came here during that time also integrated very well. Here's the difference, though - Finns weren't very different culturally from Swedes. This is not the case with people from the middle east, there is a much bigger culture gap there. Most importantly, however, was that Sweden then was undergoing one of the biggest economical growth periods in history (For reference, Sweden had,at the start of WW2 been one of the poorest countries in Europe), and those Finns, as well as the Greeks and the Italians, came here as workforce immigration. Unlike now, there were lots of no-education-needed jobs for both them and the Swedish lower class, and lots of opportunity to make a future for oneself. That is not the case now. There's not enough jobs to support the education-less or "wrongly" educated population, let alone even more refugees. There are no socialists who care about the improvements of the lower classes at the helm. There's not even enough interest in the well being of the people to build enough houses to counter the acute housing crisis Sweden is currently undergoing even without a massive influx of refugees, because that would lower the overinflated real estate market (which by the way is going to crash very soon anyway). The situation is not the same as in the 50s and 60s in any way.

[Antsan]

You know as an anti-islamist and far-right nationalist I find liberal EU reaction on Syrian refugees crisis very funny.

I really expected something better than millions screaming "build a huge wall and let them go somewhere else"

Last time when Germany made a radical solution to similar problem, they got whole world bombing them with hate.

As far as I can tell a huge chunk of the Jews at that time was fiercely nationalistic. For Germany, that is. No integration problems there at all. Hitler's "solution" was not about immigration in any way.