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[Frumple]

Now now, that's only like half of LW's point. The other half is quivering anticipation that the unstoppable throbbing virility of islamic culture will deftly penetrate british society down to its roots, casting everyone into a damnation of magnificent facial hair and halel foodstuffs.

Doubt not the mighty vigor of the barbarian outsider, Ree! Doubt not its great peaks of societal conquest! Limpid british culture cannot stand against such vitality, and must be protected like the most dainty and fragile of virginal maidens, lest it be ravaged into a horror of unrecognizable cultural mutation! Stand true against the depredations of the swarthy men, people of Britain!

But keep their women, I guess? I never hear much about that side of things.

[Vilanat]

Yup, tourist visas avoids the whole government / UNhcr process that asylum seekers have to go through.

But I think the best evidence that it's paranoid and insane is that terrorist attacks by refugees are basically unknown. There's a long history of refugees from war-torn countries of all ethnicities and ideologies, but there's no history of asylum-seekers systematically launching terrorist attacks.

So we have rumors and hearsay now about the refugees being a threat. The same rumors and hearsay about refugees since the dawn of history. When was the last time that a wave of refugees systematically carried out terrorist attacks?

"Oh but it's different this time". No, it isn't.

Jordan and Lebanon would like to say Hi.

[Reelya]

But attacks there aren't by asylum seekers right? Militants crossing a border is not the same thing as a refugee.

So in other words, the only counter example offered at this point has nothing to do with refugees.

The only sources I can find is about refugees in Lebanon who were attacked. And vague rumors that terrorists are hiding amongst the refugees. Which I pointed out, those types of rumors have never been substantiated before.

[Frumple]

... well now you're just defeating your own argument, ree. Part of LW & co's point is that some (or all, it's hard to tell some days) of those refugees are, in fact, militants crossing a border. So yeah, it's the same thing to 'em.

[Reelya]

We'd have to see what the actual claims for Jordan and Lebanon are. Vilanat is not forthcoming with his actual links so I was conjecturing on what they might entail.

Like I said, the only sources I can find is that Lebanese locals attacked some refugees. Nothing about refugees being involved in any attacks.

[notquitethere]

Now now, that's only like half of LW's point. The other half is quivering anticipation that the unstoppable throbbing virility of islamic culture will deftly penetrate british society down to its roots, casting everyone into a damnation of magnificent facial hair and halel foodstuffs.

Maybe LW would like to correct me here, but I never took him as being serious about any of that. LW lives (or has lived) in London in which White British now make up less than half the population (as few as 17% to 30% in some boroughs). You couldn't seriously hold the view that there's impending Islamification of Britain if you live almost anywhere else in the country.

[Frumple]

And now you're telling me there's something in Britain besides london.* What madness this world reaps.
Also, there may be a non-zero chance I'm not being entirely serious, either. Just maybe.
*I guess you could tack on "That matters" to that, but why bother?

[Culise]

We'd have to see what the actual claims for Jordan and Lebanon are. Vilanat is not forthcoming with his actual links so I was conjecturing on what they might entail.

Like I said, the only sources I can find is that Lebanese locals attacked some refugees. Nothing about refugees being involved in any attacks.

At a minimum, it's pretty well known that both Hamas and Fatah (especially the former, now that the latter has largely renounced terror as a political weapon) have and continue to operate in refugee camps; Ain al-Hilweh is pretty famous for it, especially after Jund al-Sham used it as a base for their attack on a Lebanese Army checkpoint back in 2007, and Nahr al-Bared had to be reduced in a bloody conflict lasting half a year in the same conflict.  It's good strategy, too, for the same reason Hamas uses civilian buildings in the Gaza to launch their rocket attacks on Israel; any response will draw civilians into the mess and inevitably be blamed on the attacking power, whether it's Israel or Lebanon.  You have a large population of disaffected and alienated youths of prime military age, without economic prospects or political representation, who are prime for an organization that promises change through not just waiting, but actual action, making them useful for recruitment.  This doesn't necessarily pertain to Syrian refugees specifically, but as far as refugees in general, there is significant precedent locally.

That said, the particular political exigencies of the Israel-Palestine conflict do not automatically lend themselves to the use of refugee camps in the West as a base of operations for acts of political terror.  I'm not certain it would automatically follow that the Syrian refugees seeking refuge in the West are terrorists, whether in part or in whole. 

[Vilanat]

An imaginary, for the sake of argument Islamic State terrorist, will not go to the closest processing center, he will just use the guise of a mass refugee stream to slip unnoticed into Europe and he will not conduct terror attacks immediately because his motives are for the continuation of said refugee stream to continue with as little control as possible. a fresh refugee going on a killing spree will result in public uproar demanding to shut the gates.

Also, the dangers of such imaginary folks moving into Europe is not a large scale terror attacks but "lone wolves" incidents. they don't need a lot of infrastructure to conduct those.

As for the requested examples, search for Jordan's Black September and the following Lebanese civil war.

[scrdest]

An imaginary, for the sake of argument Islamic State terrorist, will not go to the closest processing center, he will just use the guise of a mass refugee stream to slip unnoticed into Europe and he will not conduct terror attacks immediately because his motives are for the continuation of said refugee stream to continue with as little control as possible. a fresh refugee going on a killing spree will result in public uproar demanding to shut the gates.

Also, the dangers of such imaginary folks moving into Europe is not a large scale terror attacks but "lone wolves" incidents. they don't need a lot of infrastructure to conduct those.

As for the requested examples, search for Jordan's Black September and the following Lebanese civil war.

Reminds me of another point I've heard raised in a debate about the whole thing: any actions against those refugees who are NOT criminals/ISIS collaborators is actually in ISIS's interest - they can point to it as oppression from the 'Crusaders' - and on the other hand, not doing anything also benefits them, so it's a win-win.

[martinuzz]

Meanwhile, in Hungary...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The subscript translates to: "A wounded refugee in Hungary, after fights broke out between refugees and Hungarian police"

and meanwhile, in Greece

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

"A Syrian refugee arrives at Lesbos, and is helped ashore"

What a contrast

[Vilanat]

This is rather anecdotal and selective, don't you think?

I mean, one could say And look how grateful those immigrants are in greece and be just as right and just as selective as you are.

[Culise]

Yeah.  I mean, I could do this, too.

Spoiler: Hungary (click to show/hide)

Source

Spoiler: Greece (click to show/hide)

Source

[Vilanat]

Or this: an Iraqi islamic extremist got killed while trying to stab a policewoman in Berlin. He was known to the german authorities after being caught plotting to kill an Iraqi prime minister, but they couldn't deport him thanks to his refugee status.

[martinuzz]

It is what you want to make of it. I only observed that there was a contrast between those two pictures (which I believe is a pretty neutral observation), and decided to share that. ( I found both pictures on the same page of today's newspaper). If you want to give it any meaning beyond that, that's up to you.