Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

A

A

A

A

A

A

A

A

[Antsan]

Wasn't there a name for… uhm… paradoxes for lack of a better term… like that?

There is but the closest I can come up with is this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpson%27s_paradox

Which doesn't seem to quite fit.

Yeah, that's the one I was thinking of. I think it fits.

[Loud Whispers]

Singapore's success doesn't come from quality education for it's best students.  Singapore's success happens because during colonial times the British nicked it off the natives and used it as a naval base.  Because it's located on a strait that a large volume of traffic goes through, it became a major trade hub.  This gave Singapore a bunch of cash cow industries that require a bit of capital investment (such as building massive oil storage facilities) but dont require much else.  With that money, Singapore can afford to import whatever it wants, such as foreign doctors to take care of it's population.  In many regards it's similar to an oil rich country like the UAE.

It was not the only port located near the straits of Malacca and nor was it the first or biggest. Even today Malaysia, Indonesia and the Philippines have more oil and the same traffic (with Malaysia even having multiple of the world's busiest ports) but not the same wealth. Singapore was given no cashcow industries like rubber or oil and when it was kicked out of Malaya it had no resources, no industry, was dealing with the aftershocks of race riots, commies and Japanese bombing - it was a third world country with access to little capital and not much else. The reason why Singapore has ludicrous amounts of money now was because they invested it well and attracted even more investment from Americans and Chinese, convincing them that it was worth their time; building up manufacturing industries, investing heavily in education and ridding corruption (alongside dissidence) to make Singapore stand out as a safe investment area. Its success was not inevitable, its success was promoted.
It didn't go from this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

To this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Without the smart sweaty brows of Singaporeans, you don't become a major financial hub for nothing.

Also give the colonial Brits some credit; it wasn't used as a naval base until WWII, before then it was just a trading post - and it had competition from the Chinese, Portuguese, Spanish and Dutch. And it won, by essentially doing nothing because no one likes paying tariffs.

*EDIT
I was wrong, the Singaporeans invest even more in education than I thought.

[mainiac]

but not the same wealth.

And Iran has much more oil then the UAE but is much poorer.  One cash cow for a nation of two million matters a lot more then a cash cow for a a nation of eleven million or thirty seven million.

But the overall shipping isn't the point anyway.  Malaysia and the Phillapines didn't have a cash cow carrying trade, they just had trade.  Any nation is going to generate trade if it's a large economy and has proximity to trading partners.  The point with Singapore is that it benefited from other countries trade.  That's the cash cow.

And it's a much better cash cow then something like oil and rubber.  The political economy of oil and rubber is very difficult.  In an extractive industry everyone just wants to own it and profit from economic rents.  Even a pretty healthy democracy like the US has a hard time with the political economy of oil.  Shipping ports on the other hand have the incentives pointed towards development, the foreigners might prefer if wages are kept down but everyone foreigners, rich and poor Singaporeans, want the port to increase capacity and the shipping to increase volume.  There is a natural limit on the amount of rent seeking behavior.  This is why most extractive economies were either successful economies that specialized (Norway, Australia) with Japan being the one strange exception.

Also, look at a picture of Singapore soon after independence:


Rather different from your image before, no?

[Loud Whispers]

And Iran has much more oil then the UAE but is much poorer.

Because they can't sell that oil due to sanctions.

One cash cow for a nation of two million matters a lot more then a cash cow for a a nation of eleven million or thirty seven million.
But the overall shipping isn't the point anyway.  Malaysia and the Phillapines didn't have a cash cow carrying trade, they just had trade.

You just described the situation Singapore was in. Except without oil and rubber.

Any nation is going to generate trade if it's a large economy and has proximity to trading partners.  The point with Singapore is that it benefited from other countries trade.  That's the cash cow.

And that happened. First it had to be a large economy. Foreign investment, education and industry.

And it's a much better cash cow then something like oil and rubber.  The political economy of oil and rubber is very difficult.  In an extractive industry everyone just wants to own it and profit from economic rents.  Even a pretty healthy democracy like the US has a hard time with the political economy of oil.  Shipping ports on the other hand have the incentives pointed towards development, the foreigners might prefer if wages are kept down but everyone foreigners, rich and poor Singaporeans, want the port to increase capacity and the shipping to increase volume.

And they could pick any other port in southeast asia; they picked Singapore because Singaporeans made it the most attractive port.

Also, look at a picture of Singapore soon after independence:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Rather different from your image before, no?

Because that is not a picture of Singapore soon after independence, that is a picture of Singapore during modernizing, after industrialization and whilst the foundations for their future were set by attracting foreign investment.

Spoiler: 1940 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: 1950 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: 1960 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: 1970 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: 1980 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: 1990 (click to show/hide)

[mainiac]

Singapore became self governing in 1965.  My picture was a lot closer to that date then yours...

[Loud Whispers]

Singapore became self governing in 1965.  My picture was a lot closer to that date then yours...

http://www.zeesleepvaart.com/Singapore1970.jpg
This is the URL from your picture, so I'm guessing yours wasn't; more to the point, Singapore's independence is not the mark here where Singapore started seeking foreign investment. The Singapore Economic Development Board was founded in the sixties before its independence, and it is then (before they had even joined Malaya let alone been kicked out of it) that industrialization and modernization began and the Economic Development Board at once set about making Singapore an attractive destination for foreign investment with overseas centers selling praise of Singapore. 70s-80s is when Singapore really begins dumping money into education with apprenticeships, skills development funds and a more structured education system that taught technical/academic skills and awarded gifted students with the best education possible. Urbanization also begins during the 1960s before independence, shown quite nicely in how quickly the cityscape changes.

[nenjin]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/10/politics/u-s-take-10000-syrian-refugees/index.html

Addendum to what I was talking about earlier. It looks like the the # of Syrian refugees originally planned for does directly relate to the total amount of immigration the US allows. (75k per year.) I find it interesting the new number Obama wants puts us right on par with Canada.

[Loud Whispers]

Just so Canadians can't talk shit about Murrica

[nenjin]

Just so Canadians can't talk shit about Murrica

More like so the rest of the world can't criticize us for doing less for Syrian refugees than Canada.

[mainiac]

Nice that we are actually raising the refugee cap (what a horrible concept) instead of just giving spots from other places to Syria instead.  Still reeeeeally low.  Imagine Western Europe+US+Japan+South Korea+Canada+Australia all agreed to let in .5% of their population of Syrian refugees in one go.

[Willfor]

Just so Canadians can't talk shit about Murrica

Not gonna work. Canadians are talking shit about Canada not doing enough. Except the general population of racist isolationists, of course, but those are everywhere.

[RedKing]

Why is Singapore in the EuroPol thread? 


I have to say, I'm impressed with the Germans taking a big chunk of the refugees even as a lot of Europe coughs and says "Oh, gee, well, you know....we've got these things and stuff...."

I'm curious though -- has there been any talk (particular in the Western European countries) of abandoning the Schengen plan?

[Loud Whispers]

Nice that we are actually raising the refugee cap (what a horrible concept) instead of just giving spots from other places to Syria instead.  Still reeeeeally low.  Imagine Western Europe+US+Japan+South Korea+Canada+Australia all agreed to let in .5% of their population of Syrian refugees in one go.

Israel, Saudi Arabia, China, Russia?

Why is Singapore in the EuroPol thread? 

Reasons

I have to say, I'm impressed with the Germans taking a big chunk of the refugees even as a lot of Europe coughs and says "Oh, gee, well, you know....we've got these things and stuff...."

They're not taken by choice hahahahahah they're trying to force them out of Germany and into the rest of Europe

I'm curious though -- has there been any talk (particular in the Western European countries) of abandoning the Schengen plan?

Yep, lots of talk, mainly centered around French angry at the Italians, Central Europeans angry at the Germans and the French at Calais are demanding that Britain join the Schengen area for some reason. Also there's that recent thing with Ayoub el-Khazzani traveling all the way through Europe just to attack that one French train getting around so easily because there are no checks within the Schengen area. The Swiss as usual are always antsy at someone else's attempts to "integrate" the fuck out of their country so there's that. Oh and Denmark's government has recently reintroduced border controls within the Schengen area that are not border controls the same way Japan doesn't have aircraft carriers since the border checks happen at border areas and not the border itself. Hahaha, cheeki Danes.
*EDIT
Apparently Germans are also rethinking the whole "fuck your borders gib clay now" thing, in the sense that "no borders for some people, borders for other people."

[Helgoland]

I have to say, I'm impressed with the Germans taking a big chunk of the refugees even as a lot of Europe coughs and says "Oh, gee, well, you know....we've got these things and stuff...."

They're not taken by choice hahahahahah they're trying to force them out of Germany and into the rest of Europe

That's literally the opposite of true. The refugee trains coming in from Hungary were met by cheering crowds, as weird as that may appear.

Also I'd like to remark that Germany is part of Central Europe. While we certainly have a culture of self-loathing, we're not exactly angry at ourselves.

I'm curious though -- has there been any talk (particular in the Western European countries) of abandoning the Schengen plan?

Yeah, but mostly by people like LW - nothing serious so far.

[Loud Whispers]

That's literally the opposite of true. The refugee trains coming in from Hungary were met by cheering crowds, as weird as that may appear.

I was tempted to post the riots but I won't be mean; I'll add that what German people do and what their politicians do are two different things. They finally got Juncker to lose it yesterday and create a quota to pull all those refugees from their cheering crowds in Germany and into the rest of Europe.

Also I'd like to remark that Germany is part of Central Europe. While we certainly have a culture of self-loathing, we're not exactly angry at ourselves.

Don't be silly Helgo, Germans are always angry at themselves - it's in the language. But seriously, check your neighbours. Hungarians have made it clear they see the refugee crisis as a German problem and will not let the Germans give them their refugees.

Yeah, but mostly by people like LW - nothing serious so far.

No, none like me - I am not living in the Schengen Area so I have nothing to vocally scrap beyond EU membership.