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[Ukrainian Ranger]

Another thing to not is that Ukraine is supposed to be repaying Russian 3 billions USD in a couple months. I wonder what will happen to that.

December 20 to be precise.

I am rather curious what will happen. I do hope that our government will find a legitimate way to not pay a single $.

[Kot]

Ukraine no pay? They pay with clay! Xaxaxaxaxaxaxaa )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[Sergarr]

Another thing to not is that Ukraine is supposed to be repaying Russian 3 billions USD in a couple months. I wonder what will happen to that.

as if ukraine will pay the russians for anything

it was all too common for them to derp out on gas payments even before they stopped being a full-on russian puppet

"Ukraine derping out on gas payments" kind of disproves the idea of Ukraine being full-on Russian puppet, though?

[Loud Whispers]

The Birmingham Quran has had an interesting development, as it's been carbon dates as older than Muhammed. People suspected this but couldn't prove it since any variants would have been rekt by Abu Bakr, and now we know. Birmingham caliphate wen

There is also just something wondrous imaging the journey this little text must have made, outliving the Roman Empire, moving from Arabia to Europe and all the way into a library in Birmingham where it remained unknown for a century more. Also it appears the carbon dating only applies to the parchment and although the bright profs and tofs rubbing their eyeballs all over it say the date's probably correct they could be full of figs.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

My understanding is that the parchment date is pretty much a wash, as this was from the period of "rub the ink off and use it again". An ink date is needed to establish any historical meaning.

[Sheb]

True, but a lot of the time, you can see trace of the older text using X-Ray'n stuff.

Also, it seems the the period Muhammad was alive overlap the age range of the parchment.

[LordSlowpoke]

time to grab that qu'ran and shitpost in it

the bants would be extreme

Another thing to not is that Ukraine is supposed to be repaying Russian 3 billions USD in a couple months. I wonder what will happen to that.

as if ukraine will pay the russians for anything

it was all too common for them to derp out on gas payments even before they stopped being a full-on russian puppet

"Ukraine derping out on gas payments" kind of disproves the idea of Ukraine being full-on Russian puppet, though?

this is around the time where i say things like, "ukraine can't even do being a puppet right" but eh i can get my bants elsewhere

[mainiac]

"Ukraine derping out on gas payments" kind of disproves the idea of Ukraine being full-on Russian puppet, though?

It's generally how the puppet relationship works.  The overlord subsidizes them with loans they dont expect to be repaid or repaid on very generous terms.

[Culise]

That said, if Ukraine under Yanukovich was a puppet of Russia, you'd have expected them to give Ukraine better prices in the first place than some of the highest in Europe as well as neglecting to enforce repayment provisions strictly.  Here's what is apparently a map of Russia's gas prices from 2013 before Russo-Ukrainian relations soured, originally intended in the context of illustrating Russia's gas politics.  Actual political partners Belarus and Armenia get the best prices, while potential partners in the West get moderate prices when compared to the less-influential East to ensure their continued reliance and undercut potential competitors.  The worst-hit as far as prices are concerned are Poland and Macedonia, but Ukraine is not that far behind.  Actually, Turkey doesn't surprise me quite as much, but seeing Bulgaria's high prices surprises me a little; I suspect it was part of the South Stream politics where they were promised lower prices once the South Stream went online.  I suspect most of the tolerance for Ukraine's "derping out on gas payments," as Sergarr eloquently and accurately put it, was mostly just an attempt to refinance in order to get some of their money back, rather than an attempt at political puppetry.  Turn off the gasworks completely, and they not only have to write those payments off completely, but also have to worry about the Ukrainians siphoning off from the major pipelines that run through their country (accusations and examples of which have been flying around for at least six EDIT: twenty years).  Indeed, one of the reasons why Ukraine's prices rose significantly after that data above was collected was because one of the major discounts for timely repayment of those debts was cancelled, shortly after Russia also cancelled the discounts that were part of the deals made regarding Sevastopol (by virtue of seizing control of the port, city, and entire peninsula directly, but let's not quibble over details). 

[nenjin]

Might refusing to pay given Russia additional leeway to act militarily against Ukraine? Under "normal" diplomatic circumstances I'd say no, but, but the situation over there is far from the normal diplomacy game.

[Owlbread]

I think Yanukovych era Ukraine was Russia's bitch but that doesn't mean Putin had to give them anything like better prices. That would only be if Russia actually wanted to build a stable partnership with Ukraine as it does Belarus and Armenia, Ukraine was too big and powerful and unpredictable for that. It neededto be cut down to size, even if that meant Russia had to invade it, destabilize it and turn half the country into a toilet in the process.

[mainiac]

So the Russian government gave loans to Ukraine which used that money to buy gas at inflated prices from Gazprom, a company with a special relationship with the Russian government.  Seems like a pretty straightforward situation to me.

[Sergarr]

I think Yanukovych era Ukraine was Russia's bitch but that doesn't mean Putin had to give them anything like better prices. That would only be if Russia actually wanted to build a stable partnership with Ukraine as it does Belarus and Armenia, Ukraine was too big and powerful and unpredictable for that. It neededto be cut down to size, even if that meant Russia had to invade it, destabilize it and turn half the country into a toilet in the process.

Russia has a stable partnership with Kazakhstan, which is comparable to Ukraine in size (17 million people in Kazakhstan vs ~40 for Ukraine). It also has a comparable GDP: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/gdp, http://www.tradingeconomics.com/kazakhstan/gdp - that's despite only having less than half population, mind you. That's two arguments eliminated, out of three.

Only argument left is "Ukraine was too unpredictable for a stable relationship", which is an obvious statement - you need to be predictable to have a stable relationship. It doesn't follow that you would need to "cut down to size" from that, though - how would that help the issue of Ukraine being "too unpredictable"?

[Descan]

It's more than twice as big. I don't see how that's comparable.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I have heard some curios rumours from my contacts in Crimea. If it is true, then traitors from Ukrainian army got a nice chance  to be beheaded\drowned\burned alive during a nice unofficial vocation in Syria.