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Author Topic: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!  (Read 1745867 times)

Loud Whispers

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: The Edition Edition
« Reply #18135 on: June 28, 2015, 10:29:42 am »

Given how happy that guy looks in the GIF, i'd say he must be a carpetbagger or a banker.
RIP Ron Paul, must've been a carpetbagger or a banker

wierd

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: REMOVE FETA!
« Reply #18136 on: June 28, 2015, 10:32:37 am »

(the combination of happy cheering with OMG AUSTERITY AND CIVIL COLLAPSE! is just too unsettling for me.)
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Sheb

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: REMOVE FETA!
« Reply #18137 on: June 28, 2015, 10:35:23 am »

In other news, is there any poll results on what the referendum will say? In a way, I can't really blame Tsipras for going to the poll on this one, the Eurozone gave him the choice between two very unappealing options and it seems only right that the Greek get to choose which on they want.

On the other hand that referendum is next sunday, and Greece is already facing default by Tuesday...
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Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

Loud Whispers

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: REMOVE FETA!
« Reply #18138 on: June 28, 2015, 11:05:02 am »

(the combination of happy cheering with OMG AUSTERITY AND CIVIL COLLAPSE! is just too unsettling for me.)
That is a gif of Ron Paul cheering it's happening, because of the apocalypse paul doom pastas. The Happening is the end of everything. Every time you post a gif cheering it's Happening you are cheering the impending apocalypse.

As collapse could be happening, the happy cheery doompaul gif is fully appropriate.

ChairmanPoo

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #18139 on: June 28, 2015, 11:29:45 am »

Tuesday it's default with the IMF not the EU. EU payment is later in July. Dont recall the details
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Everyone sucks at everything. Until they don't. Not sucking is a product of time invested.

Helgoland

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: REMOVE FETA!
« Reply #18140 on: June 28, 2015, 12:19:55 pm »

In other news, is there any poll results on what the referendum will say? In a way, I can't really blame Tsipras for going to the poll on this one, the Eurozone gave him the choice between two very unappealing options and it seems only right that the Greek get to choose which on they want.
He could've done so a week ago though. Now it's just a sign that someone called his bluff.

Quote
raise the corporate tax rate from 26% to 28%
@Helgoland, I am writing the response to your post re: class. It is taking a lot of time.
Cool! I get the impression that I'm better at arguing theoretics than at arguing about realpolitik...
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Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

lijacote

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: REMOVE FETA!
« Reply #18141 on: June 28, 2015, 12:40:36 pm »

In other news, is there any poll results on what the referendum will say? In a way, I can't really blame Tsipras for going to the poll on this one, the Eurozone gave him the choice between two very unappealing options and it seems only right that the Greek get to choose which on they want.
He could've done so a week ago though. Now it's just a sign that someone called his bluff.
Quote
raise the corporate tax rate from 26% to 28%
@Helgoland, I am writing the response to your post re: class. It is taking a lot of time.
Cool! I get the impression that I'm better at arguing theoretics than at arguing about realpolitik...
I would hesitate to call it very good argumentation. Here and there you reject the Marxist class analysis in between asking what it is, which to me seems very strange. Perhaps your questions are leading to a more refined representation, but I would not view your argumentation sans the constant and baseless rejection. The questions themselves are good, and helpful to me as well.

In some bad news, my browser crashed after I opened my 76th tab, leading to a wipe of my post. I should have gotten the hint earlier and started writing it in a text editor - the post will be delayed considerably, as I am today also committed to writing about the state of things for trans people in Finland on behalf of my organization, which takes precedence. Here are a couple of links that I was using to back up my post. I will not vouch for all of them, but all of them have been recommended reading (or listening) when it comes to this question of class.

Audio from Kyle Brown on WeAreMany, a source for talks and debates on socialist issues
International Socialist Review and Alex Callinicos on the "New Middle Class"

Socialist Worker articles:
Why the working class?
The disappearing working class?

I'll also spoil the central point in why we should use the Marxist definition of class: this theory is not merely for the observation of what's true and apparent, but also for the prediction of capitalist politics, and for the construction of socialist politics. Theories are tools, and they can be fit for varying purposes. When we take, for example, Sheb's way of looking at class through income, we lose a lot of detail on how people are positioned in relation to production. This kind of thinking might be useful for when you want to control exploitation and make the exploitation as fair as possible, but when it comes to revolutionary politics, looking at income levels does not help us very much. To understand why relation to production matters so much, we need to go into what makes history move, and that's further down the rabbit hole in a thread dedicated to something more general, and another reason for us to have a socialism thread -- not that I don't think it's pertinent to European and global politics, Marxist theory, but still. We are going in-depth into things that might be better preserved, observed and responded to in a thread dedicated to these issues in particular.

Quote from: Karl Marx in the very brief 'Theses on Feuerbach'
The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.
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Me miserable! which way shall I fly
Infinite wrath, and infinite despair?
Which way I fly is Hell; myself am Hell;
And, in the lowest deep, a lower deep
Still threatening to devour me opens wide,
To which the Hell I suffer seems a Heaven.

Helgoland

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: REMOVE FETA!
« Reply #18142 on: June 28, 2015, 01:07:42 pm »

Cool! I get the impression that I'm better at arguing theoretics than at arguing about realpolitik...
I would hesitate to call it very good argumentation. Here and there you reject the Marxist class analysis in between asking what it is, which to me seems very strange. Perhaps your questions are leading to a more refined representation, but I would not view your argumentation sans the constant and baseless rejection. The questions themselves are good, and helpful to me as well.
Well, I think I have a rough idea of what is meant, and based on this rough idea I reject Marxist theory. But that doesn't keep me from wanting to learn more: Many other theories, concepts, ideas are deeply flawed and still have valuable lessons to teach. Plato's Republic comes to mind.

Reading your links now - I'm looking forward to your in-depth explanation! Maybe you're right though - a new thread probably would be better.
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Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

Guardian G.I.

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this means that a donation of 30 dollars to a developer that did not deliver would equal 4.769*10^-14 hitlers stolen from you
that's like half a femtohitler
and that is terrible
Sigtext

Phmcw

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #18144 on: June 28, 2015, 06:14:23 pm »

They tryed to make Greece an offer they couldn't refuse, they ended up makng an offer they cannot accept.

The higer ups are so complacent, naive and incompetent it's uncredible, and it's setting us on a course for disatser. Right now we can say it : the west is decadent.
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Quote from: toady

In bug news, the zombies in a necromancer's tower became suspicious after the necromancer failed to age and he fled into the hills.

Loud Whispers

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #18145 on: June 28, 2015, 06:16:24 pm »

BRACE YOURSELVES
THE WORLD OF GREAT POWERS CLIMBING A LADDER TO ASCENDENCY IS AT HAND

smjjames

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #18146 on: June 28, 2015, 07:58:33 pm »

BRACE YOURSELVES
THE WORLD OF GREAT POWERS CLIMBING A LADDER TO ASCENDENCY IS AT HAND

Wut?
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LordSlowpoke

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #18147 on: June 28, 2015, 08:03:05 pm »

whispers is smoking dango pay it no mind
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #18148 on: June 28, 2015, 08:10:28 pm »

Ashes make fertile grounds for new crop

If you know what I'm saying

Helgoland

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #18149 on: June 28, 2015, 08:11:24 pm »

You're a necrophile with a thing for cremated people?
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The Bay12 postcard club
Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.
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