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Author Topic: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!  (Read 1772821 times)

Loud Whispers

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #15078 on: March 03, 2015, 09:32:37 am »

...I'd just like to point out, as a neutral* observer, that while it is pretty suspicious that an opposition leader was shot dead outside the Kremlin many of you guys (well, mostly mainiac) seem to basically go "something we disagree with happened in Russia IT WAS PUTIN".

And upon someone pointing out that it wasn't necessarily Putin, so far the main response I have seen is "BUT IT WAS PUTIN."
BUT IT WAS PUTIN
THANKS OBAMA


Ed Miliband has announced his party plan on cutting English tuition fees to £6,000 from their current £9,000. George Kerevan, writing in the National, argues fees should be scrapped entirely and funded with a wealth tax, lest our economy suffocate and expire under a mountain of private debt, as the fee-based system used by the Americans will likely lead to in the States in coming decades.
Libdems say that's a bad idea that will benefit the richest graduates. George Osborne also says pretty much the same.

But yeah, in regards to Putin not being an idiot and having plenty of ways to kill his opposition - true. But a quiet death of a big figure raises greater alarm and pretty much guarantees only someone with extensive resources did it. Such as Putin.
Gunned down in public? Yeah, could have been anyone. Also sends a very clear message if it was him. Dissidence equals lead.
Remember, this is the man behind Putin's polonium poisoning bonanza. He knows full and well the value of public executions when it comes to silencing dissidents.
By that logic, any death of a big figure could be attributed by Putin.

Also, last time these dissidents had any political power (2011-2012 mass protests), there was a conspicuous lack of murders, even though by that logic, he should've gunned at least some of them down to suppress unrest. Instead, he just let people to roam a little, shouting obscenities aimed at him, to blow off their steam and return to normal life. A few people got arrested, but that happens at every major protest movement, like Occupy Wallstreet.

If he didn't do that then, why should he suddenly start to do so now, against a completely powerless (10 000 people on the march is the maximum extent of their capabilities) opposition that do not have any ability to hurt him, and whose deaths would only bolster and galvanize the opposition movement by creating another martyr?
Any death of a big figure could be attributed to Putin, but it won't. You first have to prove that the death of a big figure wasn't an accident, or wasn't natural or suicide, then you start laying on accusations.
In this case? We know it's an assassination. You don't accidentally fall on bullets. No reason to exclude him because it could be anyone. It could be anyone, but Putin is the prime suspect.

Peer Steinbrück, ex-minister of finance of Germany will help put Ukraine's finances in order. Link in German.
IT'S A TRAP
Give it 5 days before Switzerland annexes Ukraine

Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #15079 on: March 03, 2015, 09:38:26 am »

Ed Miliband has announced his party plan on cutting English tuition fees to £6,000 from their current £9,000. George Kerevan, writing in the National, argues fees should be scrapped entirely and funded with a wealth tax, lest our economy suffocate and expire under a mountain of private debt, as the fee-based system used by the Americans will likely lead to in the States in coming decades.
Why do you even have a cost on higher education? Shouldn't the state aim to provide it for free to all people who can, because higher education = higher efficiency of labor = $$$?
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Askot Bokbondeler

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #15080 on: March 03, 2015, 09:47:24 am »

the state has limited ressources and education is costly. some people think other stuff is more important than education and sometimes these people get elected.

Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #15081 on: March 03, 2015, 10:16:15 am »

the state has limited ressources and education is costly. some people think other stuff is more important than education and sometimes these people get elected.
Education is costly only in short-term. In long term it always pays off to have a more educated workforce. We're living in a world defined by the progress of mass education and technology. It wouldn't be possible if we put immediate gains before long-term ones.

I guess people that get elected on the platform of putting some stuff before education are not very well educated themselves, because otherwise they would know better.

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mainiac

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #15082 on: March 03, 2015, 10:23:01 am »

Humans do a bad job at setting the discount rate in most situations, not just education.
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Graknorke

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #15083 on: March 03, 2015, 01:38:02 pm »

26% of people consider themselves most likely to vote UKIP. There's a significant proportion of the voting population without good tendencies towards long-term planning.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #15084 on: March 03, 2015, 05:44:05 pm »

I guess people that get elected on the platform of putting some stuff before education are not very well educated themselves, because otherwise they would know better.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

tl;dr, gubmint already spending loads on education. Education needs more still.

Also on the topic of MPs and education, across all the major parties MP candidates who went to elite Unis and public schools are highly overrepresented, the only party which breaks this trend is UKIP amongst which many MP candidates didn't even go to Uni.
Pretty much what you'd expect from them all. Posh boys and posh girls ruling the world; I've got no problem with that - it's just an observation that could go to some lengths to explaining their narrow mindedness. They come from a very niche upper echelon of society and are in the majority for some reason. TIS A PITY, is all I say.

Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #15085 on: March 03, 2015, 05:52:17 pm »

Forgive me if I'm acting a little bit weird in consideration to the UK education system, but I'm used to Soviet system where most of higher education is not only free, but they actively pay you money to (theoretically) allow you to spend 100% of your time of learning things instead of taking half-time jobs and things like that. In the recent times, the amount of money they pay to you in stipend has severely decreased so that you can no longer simply live on that... and that's considered to be a bad thing.

But in comparison to UK/EU education system, it appears that we have it really, really good around here. More than 30 000 $ in loans? Jesus Christ. I'd never be able to get a higher education in a system like that!

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Fniff

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #15086 on: March 03, 2015, 06:02:00 pm »

And the job market means you better be prepared to take that 30k in debt in order to have a degree, which everyone has decided is essentially required. Why? Because of a fundamental misunderstanding of how higher education works. Back in the day, only smart people and rich kids went to college. Both of these groups tended to get successful jobs. Ergo, it is now "college = successful job".
Gotta love correlation being causation.

scriver

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #15087 on: March 03, 2015, 06:17:56 pm »

There is no one "EU" education system, sergarr.
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notquitethere

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #15088 on: March 03, 2015, 06:25:08 pm »

Loud Whispers how does the current fees system cripple poor graduates? The 'debt' in the UK isn't a real debt, it's a de facto graduate tax on income above a threshold. Everyone treating it like a real loan that must be repaid is deluded. You get given money to study for free just like in  Sergarr's Soviet system. Only difference is, you have to back some of it a little bit at a time if you later earn over a relatively high threshold.

I don't set out to defend the system, but this kind of gross misunderstanding is what puts people off studying in the first place.
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Helgoland

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #15089 on: March 03, 2015, 06:26:58 pm »

There is no one "EU" education system, sergarr.
Yet :P

Seriously though, wasn't Bologna a step in that direction? And as far as I can tell from all the whining everywhere, it appears to have failed miserably.
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I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.
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