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[Sergarr]

How do you explain Munich thingie then

A conspiracy theorist posits a theory and then asks people to disprove it.  Once the individual point has been addressed, another point will be raised or the point will be changed in a never ending process because the key point of a conspiracy theory is that it is not falsifiable.

An actual historian investigates until a clear picture emerges.  If only one explanation is considered relative plausible they will state with some confidence that is their conclusion.  If many explanations is possible they will make a limited conclusion.

How many times do I need to repeat that I'm not a conspiracy theorist? Ugh, it's like I'm talking with a wall.

[martinuzz]

There is no such thing as conspiracies. Anyone trying to make you believe there is a conspiracy, is surely being paid by the invisible forces that want us to believe in conspiracies. Don't trust the conspirationists, they're plotting against us, rational beings.

[mainiac]

How many times do I need to repeat that I'm not a conspiracy theorist? Ugh, it's like I'm talking with a wall.

Zero, you just need to stop spouting nonsense like Bush planned 9/11 or Churchill wanted Hitler.

[Sergarr]

At least the Scotland will be (most probably) free in 12 days.

[Helgoland]

How many times do I need to repeat that I'm not a conspiracy theorist? Ugh, it's like I'm talking with a wall.

Zero, you just need to stop spouting nonsense like Bush planned 9/11 or Churchill wanted Hitler.

mainiac, a couple of pages back we were wondering why this thread hasn't gone to shit, unlike the Ukrainian ones. Apparently one reason was that certain posters (forgot which ones) do not post here, or only do so rarely. IIRC those posters were mostly American. That may have been coincidence, of course.
All I'm saying: There's mostly Europeans in this thread. People who will be affected very gravely if things go downhill. I myself have been thinking of putting the firewood we have stored in a somewhat remote location behind lock and bar so it won't get stolen if Putin decides to turn off the gas. Because if he does, I personally will be freezing my ass off. We are affected by the sanctions, the economic implcations, and if there's war we may be drafted and killed. Or just be killed, because civilian casualties are a thing.
And all that is why we - or at least most of us - think a lot about this stuff. And we take it seriously.
IIRC, you're American. You're a whole continent away. Your home won't get bombed, your family won't freeze, you won't have to worry about the draft.
I'm not telling you to shut up, but please try to understand that this is a very serious matter, and therefore we should try especially hard to keep the conversation as productive as it has been. And calling others conspiracy theorists - even if it may be true! - does not help with that goal.

[Owlbread]

It was inevitable

It's finally happened, we've gotten a poll lead, and with YouGov no less. Our worst pollster. A new panelbase poll conducted over a 2-day less timeframe (from the 2nd to the 4th of September rather than YouGov's 2nd to 6th or something) shows us at 48% Yes, 52% No. Panelbase were, until now, our best pollster. So much so Unionists used to completely ignore panelbase - calling it biased in favour of the SNP and everything, saying it was wildly incorrect. Now the same Unionists on social media that made those comments one year ago are the ones clutching onto that thread; saying stuff like "No has a 4 point lead with Panelbase! Keep your chins up, people! Only one poll counts!" like they've completely forgotten everything they said about the pollster.

Literally two months ago I can remember independence supporters making those exact same comments. I was one of them, and I still am. Now it's the No campaigners that are alleging media bias/dodgy polls. I sometimes feel that a good sense of irony is far, far more important to a healthy democracy than most people realise.

Considering this is the poll that I was worried about, thinking it would show a dip in Yes support since last week (I mentioned it a while ago), I do feel a lot better tonight. I'm still very worried though; this poll came out a bit too soon for my liking. All I can say is we need to do everything in our power to make that at least 55%. The "poll of polls" which I believe is some kind of average of polls is now at 47%, the highest it has ever been.

At least the Scotland will be (most probably) free in 12 days.

Once we vote Yes we'll be in a fascinating sovereignty-limbo, worthy of study from political analysts all over the world (at least I think so anyway). We'll be an independent-state in waiting, having voted Yes our government will have a Yes mandate and can take that to the negotiating table to negotiate the terms. We'll declare independence at the end of the negotiation period, which the SNP claim will be 2016. I personally don't care when we declare independence; it could be 2025 and I'd still be the happiest man in Christendom.

Yet in spite of that we'll still be British for the duration; we'll still elect MPs at the next general election to represent Scotland at Westminster over the interim period, we'll basically experience business-as-normal on the citizen-level. It's only the politicians that'll be experiencing real differences as they debate with Cameron and his underlings, trying to win back some of the North Sea oil fields stolen by Tony Blair and given to England back in '97, things like that. Given that we will be a country-in-waiting I think that we will be protected from any kind of British military intervention abroad; the UK government could not, for example, decide to invade Iraq again with boots on the ground and go to war with the Islamic State. It just couldn't - not when we've got one foot out the door, it wouldn't be possible to suck us into that. If there's considerable risk of us getting sucked into another war in the next two years (and I firmly believe there is) then for pacifist-types like me that's a reason to vote Yes in itself. I know for one thing if we'd actually gone to war in Syria the Yes vote would have gone through the roof, and the only reason we never went to war in Syria was because of an accident/chance.

[Loud Whispers]

mainiac, a couple of pages back we were wondering why this thread hasn't gone to shit, unlike the Ukrainian ones. Apparently one reason was that certain posters (forgot which ones) do not post here, or only do so rarely. IIRC those posters were mostly American. That may have been coincidence, of course.
All I'm saying: There's mostly Europeans in this thread. People who will be affected very gravely if things go downhill. I myself have been thinking of putting the firewood we have stored in a somewhat remote location behind lock and bar so it won't get stolen if Putin decides to turn off the gas. Because if he does, I personally will be freezing my ass off. We are affected by the sanctions, the economic implcations, and if there's war we may be drafted and killed. Or just be killed, because civilian casualties are a thing.
And all that is why we - or at least most of us - think a lot about this stuff. And we take it seriously.
IIRC, you're American. You're a whole continent away. Your home won't get bombed, your family won't freeze, you won't have to worry about the draft.
I'm not telling you to shut up, but please try to understand that this is a very serious matter, and therefore we should try especially hard to keep the conversation as productive as it has been. And calling others conspiracy theorists - even if it may be true! - does not help with that goal.

Indeed. To elaborate further, Sergarr is not even being a conspiracy theorist; Sergarr was wrong on Churchill and the motives behind the Munich Deal and the Phony War, accepted he was wrong and did not insist that there was a conspiracy behind Churchill's condemnations, and was sentimentally right in that it is common knowledge that some affluent Europeans and Americans funded all sorts of totalitarian groups both fascist and communist in the 30s in order to protect their interests or further their ideologies, with the Nazis obviously also having received funding from various such individuals as well. This thing is also rather well known in Europe even if just through cultural osmosis, take a look at cabaret for example where it has a discussion between wealthy German aristocrats over the Nazis, talking about how they backed them so they would remove the communists and then die off once their use was over [and of course, things do not go to plan].

[smjjames]

How many times do I need to repeat that I'm not a conspiracy theorist? Ugh, it's like I'm talking with a wall.

Zero, you just need to stop spouting nonsense like Bush planned 9/11 or Churchill wanted Hitler.

mainiac, a couple of pages back we were wondering why this thread hasn't gone to shit, unlike the Ukrainian ones. Apparently one reason was that certain posters (forgot which ones) do not post here, or only do so rarely. IIRC those posters were mostly American. That may have been coincidence, of course.
All I'm saying: There's mostly Europeans in this thread. People who will be affected very gravely if things go downhill. I myself have been thinking of putting the firewood we have stored in a somewhat remote location behind lock and bar so it won't get stolen if Putin decides to turn off the gas. Because if he does, I personally will be freezing my ass off. We are affected by the sanctions, the economic implcations, and if there's war we may be drafted and killed. Or just be killed, because civilian casualties are a thing.
And all that is why we - or at least most of us - think a lot about this stuff. And we take it seriously.
IIRC, you're American. You're a whole continent away. Your home won't get bombed, your family won't freeze, you won't have to worry about the draft.
I'm not telling you to shut up, but please try to understand that this is a very serious matter, and therefore we should try especially hard to keep the conversation as productive as it has been. And calling others conspiracy theorists - even if it may be true! - does not help with that goal.

Uh, there were plenty of European ones too, Gogis was Russian, one or two of those people who kept doing conspiracy stuff were Ukranian I believe.

I don't know how many were American, though I guess it would be more obvious to you guys in Europe.

And yes stop calling sergarr a conspiracy theorist because he isn't.

[mainiac]

I'm sorry but isn't this the guy who was posting truther stuff?

s are a thing.
And all that is why we - or at least most of us - think a lot about this stuff. And we take it seriously.
IIRC, you're American. You're a whole continent away. Your home won't get bombed, your family won't freeze, you won't have to worry about the draft.

I have friends and family in Europe at this moment.  The world is pretty connected these days, y'know.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Americans fought and died the last two times there was a pan-Europe land war, so...

[WarRoot]

Check your privilege
Now seriously, that's not the same as having a war over your land.

[LordSlowpoke]

imagine if you will being in danger of another civil war breaking out, and foreigners egging you on like "hey guys the civil war is something we totally need to do so how about you start killing each other now what do you mean you don't want war do you have no spines do you not like freedom"

this is what america looks like right now

[GrizzlyAdamz]

At least to you LSP.

I'm sorry but isn't this the guy who was posting truther stuff?

No, that was Ivze I believe.

[MonkeyHead]

Check your privilege
Now seriously, that's not the same as having a war over your land.

Yeah, I have said it a few times around here that at times US citizens seem desensitized to the effects of war when compared to the typical EU citizen, possibly as no global conflicts have been fought on their doorsteps, amongst other reasons.

[Dutchling]

Yes vote leading