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[Ukrainian Ranger]

Some conspiracy theories stuff:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Left - Facial composite of a suspect who tried to blow up a house in Ryazan back in 1999.
Right - Strelok aka Girkin. The most notable Pro-Russian commander in the current war

[Owlbread]

Search for homophobia in places like Saudi Arabia, where you can be killed for it. But oh wait, Saudi Arabia is a close friend of the West! Yeah, let's blame Russia instead,

It strikes me that people in Russia need to understand thst no matter how bad the West is, it does not absolve them of any human rights abuses.

because it forbade a downright propaganda of it, because people here don't like the idea of parades of gloating demonstrative half-naked ass-clowns, marching as if to symbolize their victory and privilegous position over normal people.

Have you ever been to a gay pride parade? You seem to have very strongly negative opinions about them.

Generally, people do not care about the private stuff that other people do, but most people hate the attention-craving narcissistic "I am X! Respect me for that!"-kind of attitude. You do not respect or despise a person for wearing sunglasses, for example - but you surely despise the person that demands your respect for him wearing sunglasses.

This is just the usual kind of tripe ultraconservatives come out with so I won't deal with it, but can I ask you something? 

Part of the "gay propaganda" legislation prevents children and young people from learning about LGBT people and their issues. How can Russia eradicate homophobia and ensure that LGBT young people are safe, happy and healthy when their entire sexualities are considered immoral and "non-traditional" by the government?  Isn't it more likely that they'll be forced into unhappy, unfaithful straight marriages or they'll stay "behind closed doors" as you say and, because of their lack of sex education,  become yet another Russian HIV/AIDS victim?

Some conspiracy theories stuff:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Left - Facial composite of a suspect who tried to blow up a house in Ryazan back in 1999.
Right - Strelok aka Girkin. The most notable Pro-Russian commander in the current war

The Chechens have a conspiracy theory that Girkin was a Russian special forces officer in the Second Chechen War who kidnapped and tortured/murdered civilians.  He went by many aliases but they were usually "Strelok" or elated to "Strelok" in some way.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Also, there are information that Strelok participated in one massacre  in Bosnia:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/igor-strelkov-key-mh17-crash-suspect-linked-massacre-3000-bosnian-muslims-1992-1458304

[LordSlowpoke]

wow, they're linking him to a lot of things

he sure gets around

[Beznogim]

It strikes me that people in Russia need to understand thst no matter how bad the West is, it does not absolve them of any human rights abuses.

There is a Russian proverb, "Everything is measured by comparisson" ("Всё познаётся в сравнении").

Have you ever been to a gay pride parade? You seem to have very strongly negative opinions about them.

No need to be there to understand that it and its inner meaning are absolutely alien to our mentality. Western culture, long ago built on supression of minorities did not solve its problem, it simply inverted the whole situation upside down - now the minorities actively suppress the majority. Whatever you do or say has the risk of being branded politically incorrect, discriminating, homophobic - because Western mentality always goes to its extreme. Yesterday it was waging wars on people, because they are considered subhumans; today - it is waging wars on people, because they supposedly do not abide human rights. The shape changes, the inner meaning stays the same.
And these pride parades are one of the symbols of the domination of the current western ideological paradigm and reminder of existence of higher castes of people that are expected to get privileged treatment no matter what, because they were supposedly unfairly treated in the past and because you do not want to be accused of discrimination.

Part of the "gay propaganda" legislation prevents children and young people from learning about LGBT people and their issues. How can Russia eradicate homophobia and ensure that LGBT young people are safe, happy and healthy when their entire sexualities are considered immoral and "non-traditional" by the government?  Isn't it more likely that they'll be forced into unhappy, unfaithful straight marriages or they'll stay "behind closed doors" as you say and, because of their lack of sex education,  become yet another Russian HIV/AIDS victim?

Propaganda gets young people brainwashed as they tend to believe everything they hear. LGBT propaganding to children - is like propaganding religion to them. You don't want your child to accidentally get converted to some religion somewhere and become a fundamental zealot, do you?

[Darvi]

Replace LGBT propaganda with Hate Speech and you get exactly the same thing. You currently have a culture of intolerance, which only indoctrinates your kids into thinking bigotry is good and acceptable.

[MonkeyHead]

That, and LGBT orientation are not really something that can be swayed by "propaganda". You choose your political alignment or at least have it influenced by your surroundings, but people do not choose their sexual orientation. A teenager is not going to go to an LGBT rally or SexEd lesson and think "wow, being gay looks awesome - maybe I will quit this straight lark and try it", but a transgender individual will live in fear of exposing themselves (no pun intended) if their identity is somehow considered wrong by the state they live in. Tell kids that homosexuality is wrong, and they will believe it - giving rise to a generation of straight homophobes and self loathing, confused non-het people. Pride marches are not where LGBT individuals get put on a podium and feted some how by the rest of us in a big apologetic scenario, and instead are an acknowledgement that they are as valued a part of a open and secular nation as any other, free to live their lives as they see fit.

Oh, and giving all sub-groupings of people the same rights (for example, gay marriage) is not privileged treatment. If anything, it is the exact opposite.

[GlyphGryph]

Western culture, long ago built on supression of minorities did not solve its problem, it simply inverted the whole situation upside down - now the minorities actively suppress the majority.
[...]
And these pride parades are one of the symbols of the domination of the current western ideological paradigm and reminder of existence of higher castes of people that are expected to get privileged treatment no matter what, because they were supposedly unfairly treated in the past and because you do not want to be accused of discrimination.

Bwahaha. Do you seriously believe this short of bullshit?

What special privileges do you imagine this "higher caste" of people gets, exactly? Because I haven't seen any...

And how the hell do the minorities "suppress" the majorities? And suppression isn't nearly as bad as oppression anyway.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Social standing and acceptance is not a zero-sum game.

[MonkeyHead]

The more I read in this thread from Russians the more I think that either Russia simply does not "get" the west, or that the Russian people are fed a horribly distorted bundle of disinformation by their media, that not only misrepresents what goes on in the west and how we think, but also what we think about Russia itself.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I have far-right beliefs. That tells something about my opinion about LGBT movements, children adopted by gays, theory that sexual orientation is fixed at birth and so on....

But Beznogim's position is soooo disgusting even for me, like Russians say, "neo-nazi"

[Owlbread]

I have far-right beliefs. That tells something about my opinion about LGBT movements, children adopted by gays, theory that sexual orientation is fixed at birth and so on....

But Beznogim's position is soooo disgusting even for me, like Russians say, "neo-nazi"

It is important to note that Ukraine is just as Conservative in its attitudes to homosexuality as Russia. Their parliament passed the first reading of a a similar "gay propaganda" bill in 2012. Like Russia, neither country has any kind of legal protection for LGBT people against discrimination.

It's odd though. I remember reading a book about two British former journalists that decided to travel to Mongolia together to deliver a 4x4 vehicle to a Mongolian charity where it could be sold to raise funds. When they got to Kiev, they asked for two separate rooms but the friendly lady at the desk said "you can have one room if you like" - smiling and adding "it is ok, this is Kiev!" I wonder how she fitted into Ukrainian society at large.

[Beznogim]

That, and LGBT orientation are not really something that can be swayed by "propaganda". You choose your political alignment or at least have it influenced by your surroundings, but people do not choose their sexual orientation.

Is it experimentally completely proved, or is it just a current, most convenient assumption?

Tell kids that homosexuality is wrong, and they will believe it - giving rise to a generation of straight homophobes and self loathing, confused non-het people. Pride marches are not where LGBT individuals get put on a podium and feted some how by the rest of us in a big apologetic scenario, and instead are an acknowledgement that they are as valued a part of a open and secular nation as any other, free to live their lives as they see fit.

The idea of pursuing acknowledgment by dressing as ass-clowns in public is one of the main reasons why LGBT is loathed in the first place.

Oh, and giving all sub-groupings of people the same rights (for example, gay marriage) is not privileged treatment. If anything, it is the exact opposite.

Same rights mean same responsibilities. Marriage - is a juridicial mechanism designed by government to form productive cells of a society. Same-sex pairs do not exactly fit the criteria.
Therefore, either we expand the criteria of marriage as "whoever wants whatever with whom", but then it would be logical to allow, for example, polygamous/polyandrous/whatever-else marriages as well (which is still opposed in the West), or we do not allow gays to have marriages at all. Because, otherwise, it would be a privilege.

Bwahaha. Do you seriously believe this short of bullshit?

What special privileges do you imagine this "higher caste" of people gets, exactly? Because I haven't seen any...

And how the hell do the minorities "suppress" the majorities? And suppression isn't nearly as bad as oppression anyway.

Yes.
Having to have certain quotas of minorities in large organizations. Harder to fire them from job, for example, even if they are incompetent. Because else they would accuse you of discrimination.
Suppress, oppress, whatever - but being white heterosexual male in the West means being the most vulnerable social group.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

It is important to note that Ukraine is just as Conservative in its attitudes to homosexuality as Russia. Their parliament passed the first reading of a a similar "gay propaganda" bill in 2012. Like Russia, neither country has any kind of legal protection for LGBT people against discrimination.

And in my opinion it is good.  Group needs no special laws to  be protected against discrimination. All people should be protected from discrimination

For me homosexuality is exactly like BDSM or group sex or foot fetishism or any other way to have a special kind of fun.... Something that has a right to exist (as long as all sides are consenting adults)
One should be never discriminated for what he does in his\her bedroom.

But that doesn't mean that I want BDSM practitioners parades on the streets of my city*. That doesn't mean that I want to see how someone will say children that group sex is an absolutely OK thing to do.

Marriages is a more complex issue that I have no set opinion. I am OK with it as long, as they don't get state support that is directed to population raise.
Children adoption... No. Just no. For the same reason I will not give children to a pair of swingers


Edit to clarify: *They have full right to gather on the streets, of cause. Right of public peaceful gatherings is one of the basic rights. But they should follow social norms in clothing and behaviour

[Owlbread]

And in my opinion it is good.  Group needs no special laws to  be protected against discrimination. All people should be protected from discrimination

Does Ukraine have a law saying that it is illegal to discriminate based on someone's ethnicity, skin tone, religion or sexuality? That's pretty much a catch-all.

For me homosexuality is exactly like BDSM or group sex or foot fetishism or any other way to have a special kind of fun.... Something that has a right to exist (as long as all sides are consenting adults)
One should be never discriminated for what he does in his\her bedroom.

The problem is that homosexuality, or any other kind of "sexuality" for that matter, is a bit deeper than a fetish in that someone who is 100% homosexual is completely unable to be in a successful heterosexual, romantic relationship. When heterosexual relationships are the only accepted societal norm you can imagine how difficult that must be for them.

But that doesn't mean that I want BDSM practitioners parades on the streets of my city. That doesn't mean that I want to see how someone will say children that group sex is an absolutely OK thing to do.

But, as a genuine question, what is the worst thing that can happen as a result of a gay pride parade in your city? That children would be corrupted? As a thing to note - the more a sexual community feels repressed, the more "blatant" they may be in their acts of protest. So if your society oppresses them the more likely they'll dress in a way to shock you as an act of protest. Imagine if being Ukrainian and Ukrainian national identity was oppressed? In an act of protest wouldn't you try to be as provocative as possible?

Glasgow, probably the closest thing to a "home city" I've got, has a gay pride parade every year attended by about 4,000 people regularly, generally led by drag queens. The actual rank-and-file people on parade though are not bare-chested assclowns as Beznogim describes them, they tend to look like this:

Spoiler: This is what a gay pride parade looks like when the people haven't been oppressed/repressed. (click to show/hide)

So the point I'm making is that pride parades will look even more shocking the less liberal your country is in its attitudes towards them.

But yes, you, just like Beznogim, need to understand that homosexuality and things in that vein are not just a "fetish" or deviant sexual activity that can be brushed under the carpet or kept behind closed doors. Can you imagine being compelled to be in a gay relationship because it's the societal norm?

Children adaptation... No. Just no. For the same reason I will not give children to a pair of swingers

Have you any evidence of children raised by parents in homosexual relationships growing up badly?