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[Guardian G.I.]

ENough with the nazi thing, come on.

I'm illustrating the severity of the ongoing holy war with that picture. I'm not naming any specific people Nazis.
The defence of the Brest Fortress depicted in the picture was a battle for life and death, just like the ongoing discussion.

Guys, please, calm down for Heaven's sake.

[Darvi]

Guys, please, calm down for Heaven's sake.

Of course, you realise that you'll have to do what you preach as well.

[smjjames]

ENough with the nazi thing, come on.

I'm illustrating the severity of the ongoing holy war with that picture. I'm not naming any specific people Nazis.
The defence of the Brest Fortress depicted in the picture was a battle for life and death, just like the ongoing discussion.

Guys, please, calm down for Heaven's sake.

Oh, I thought you were doing something with the 'western nazis against russia' thing, which is old and worn out.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

I don't think we're all being unreasonable c*nts. One or two of us (Mainiac and Mict') are just being too abrasive and snarky. It's not even the fact that people here are seeing things in black and white - I know more of us see things that way more than we show on the surface (I'm looking at you Guardian), we just aren't snarky and abrasive about it and keep it to ourselves. I think Sheb needs to lock this for a bit so everything can bubble back down into passive aggression.

I think it's pretty reasonable to ask for clarification of propaganda-like claims, lest they be made all the time.

[Owlbread]

I'm illustrating the severity of the ongoing holy war with that picture. I'm not naming any specific people Nazis.

Sure.

Oh, I thought you were doing something with the 'western nazis against russia' thing, which is old and worn out.

Of course he was but his passive aggression, however irritating, is infinitely more preferable to 3 pages of people throwing the C word around, refusing to read what their opponent is saying and then saying they're ignoring each-other while arguing for another two pages about geopolitics.

Guys, please, calm down for Heaven's sake.

If everyone that's feeling angry right now could take 5 minutes to do something they enjoy then Sheb won't even need to lock the thread.

I think it's pretty reasonable to ask for clarification of propaganda-like claims, lest they be made all the time.

I agree with you completely but it is no excuse to be rude.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

(reply to removed post removed)

[Guardian G.I.]

Guys, please, calm down for Heaven's sake.

Of course, you realise that you'll have to do what you preach as well.

I'm calm. Maybe my choice of metaphors wasn't particularly good, but I'm absolutely reserved right now.

Once again I urge people to relax. It's like WW3 has just started prematurely in here.

[Darvi]

Yru're being massively passive aggressive (massive-passive-aggressive?) though, which is just as bad.

[Guardian G.I.]

Yru're being massively passive aggressive (massive-passive-aggressive?) though, which is just as bad.

Really? If I have just fuelled the flames, I sincerely apologize.

EDIT: Guardian G.I. cannot into English.

[smjjames]

From the BBC news live thing:

" Peter Bouckaert, Emergency Director at Human Rights Watch

tweets: The Buk SA-11 is a 15-ft, 1500lbs missile, w only small 150lbs warhead, so expect lot of missile debris at #malaysianplanecrash site."

The rebels might have removed any of the big obvious pieces, but I'm sure there are many small pieces that could be missed or passed over as not being from the missile.

Yru're being massively passive aggressive (massive-passive-aggressive?) though, which is just as bad.

Really? If I have just fuelled the flames, I sincerely apologize.

EDIT: Guardian G.I. cannot into English.

I don't think you did, I was just saying enough of that because it's overused and not even funny anymore.

[Owlbread]

Have some Scottish news. The new EC President, Jean-Claude Junker, is apparently "sympathetic" to our bid for independent membership of the EU. A "senior EU source" has also claimed that Scotland would be treated as a "special case", not like countries in the Balkans and elsewhere that do not fit the current criteria.

It is now likely (as likely as it can be) that the process of Scotland joining the EU will be very smooth. This completely contradicts the claims of Unionists that Scotland would, in their own words (I am not joking) "have to join the back of the queue" and wait for years. As if EU membership was a queue in the first place, but people making that claim seldom understand the EU. You can imagine Van Rompuy very slowly trying to stamp the President of Poland's hand with one of those rubber stamps you get at Disney Land while saying "Sorry Lithuania, we still haven't finished with Poland, you have to wait in line." Besides if it was an actual "queue" Turkey would be a member by now.

But yeah in 2004 the EU admitted Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia, Estonia, Malta, Hungary, Czech Republic and Cyprus. All in the same year. Interesting "queue", that.

[LordSlowpoke]

yeah, i agree with owl (wow that's amazing)

sheb already came here and it did jack, time to pull the plug before it warrants toad's attention

[smjjames]

Seems to be calming down some though.

[Guardian G.I.]

Seems to be calming down some though.

If I were Sheb, I'd still lock this thread for an hour or two to give everyone time to relax.

[Loud Whispers]

This is why I'm ignoring you.

No, you're not.

Heh.

I just don't get it though, I make these points:

• Sensationalist news does not make the knowledge of the news any better known, objective or reasoned. It does not produce a collected discussion, only sets the stage for conflict. Sensationalist news leads to the finer points being smothered by simpler fears:

  It's USA vs Russia! The cold war is back!
• Sensationalist news helps to drive down what should be getting that attention. Ironically enough in Western media the separatists who actually shot down the plane aren't getting nearly as much scrutiny as they should be getting because the media are framing it as being entirely Russia's fault or Ukraine's fault whilst the separatists themselves are unknown and the Gaza invasion is page-6 news and the Ukraine crisis itself is page-15 news.
• There are the viewpoints of Ukrainians, separatist-Ukrainians, pro-Russia militants, EU, Russia and the USA that need to be taken into account, to ignore them in favour of brushing it over as a conflict between the right and wrong would be to mean no one but the people who want conflict will profit.
• Conflict was inevitable because the current separatist regions hate this government just as much as euromaidan hated the last for various reasons one of which was to do with the bill Yanukovych passed which gave 10%+ minority represented languages a regional status on par with Ukrainian. I also mentioned that Russia was not fighting for the same reasons the separatists were, it was fighting for its own national interests [i.e. keeping its neighbours away from the EU and securing the black sea fleet].

And I have had to sift through over a 100 posts of people saying I'm spouting RT propaganda, condone the murdering of people over language, condemn the Ukrainians to attacks by Russia, am myself wishing to wage war against the West and am apparently being ignored by someone who doesn't stop mocking me.

I don't think I've called anyone a -removed- for disagreeing with my unprovable claims. So.

It's impossible to have a nice and calm discussion when the person on the other end has zero respect for anything you're saying.
Is the government anti-Russian?
Part of the problem is that the government sworn in last week had little connection to Ukraine's more Russophile east. One of its first actions was to repeal a 2012 law recognising Russian as an official regional language. The decision was widely criticised across Ukraine.
Courtesy of the BBC, who are by no means 'RT propaganda.'