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[Mictlantecuhtli]

Get your facts straight and come back to me on why Ukraine is to blame for this.

(removed)

So, you can't find one shred of evidence for your propaganda-like claims? Weird. Still waiting on those links to explain how the Ukrainian government threatened or took away Russian legal authority. I expect you to search for a while.

[ivze]

Flight recorders are scheduled to be passed to Malaysian officials at 18:00 UTC
http://ria.ru/world/20140721/1016957358.html

[palsch]

From the BBC liveblog;

Noah Sneider, Journalist in Donetsk tweets: #MH17 body train has left the station. Torez, 19:00. Destination still unconfirmed, though likely Kharkov (sic).

17:15: If Kharkiv is indeed the train's destination (and this has not been confirmed) it would be a journey of approximately 300km (186 miles). The route by road from Torez takes about four-and-a-half hours.
...
17:34: The BBC's Fergal Keane says the train is heading for Kharkiv. The city is about 300km (186 miles) north-west of Torez.

17:36: AP: Malaysian PM says an unnamed rebel leader will hand over the plane's "black-box" flight recorders to a Malaysian team later on Monday.

Kharkiv is the location the Ukrainian government wanted the bodies brought to, and is the site of many of the international teams. Combine this with the black boxes and it looks like progress.

[Loud Whispers]

(removed)

[Sergarr]

Any idea of the origins of them seeing Ukranian as a backwards peasant tounge?

Lots and lots of propaganda and confirmation bias nurturing, modern day Russian media is as propaganda-filled as the USSR, so I can't blame them for being entirely led to believe everyone is out to get them since the state media is so effective. Saturation is bound to lead to absorption.

And I wouldn't have believed that propaganda if I wasn't talking with you people. You being total asshole is what has confirmed to me that the West is really out to get us. Blame yourself.

I really should just go play DF and avoid this thread for a week. 

[Darvi]

Nothing against you, I'm out to get everybody.

[smjjames]

Flight recorders are scheduled to be passed to Malaysian officials at 18:00 UTC
http://ria.ru/world/20140721/1016957358.html

If true, that's in about 10-15 minutes.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I think Ukrainian-Russian language conflict in Ukraine is over.
No, really. No one cares what language that guy in your combat unit is using. Only few idiots keep seeing it like:  Us=Ukrainian Speaking.  Them=Russian speaking.
Now the only thing that matters - Who defends the country and who collaborates with invaders

After the war that will not matter either, should we build a country were the law is respected.

Quebec like laws will work nicely without turning Ukrainian into a de-facto secondary language of Ukraine like it would be in Putin-dominated Ukraine

[Mictlantecuhtli]

What is it with you people that you assume I'm damning the Ukrainians? Bloody hell, can no one be reasonable? Mict, all you've done is spam shit, sarcasm and ignore my post. And ignore them more now. Honestly I might as well be chanting heil Putin for all the good it's doing me, it seems like I'm not being heard as anything but.

Okay, I'll help you with the claims you made that you seem to be so upset that I'm disputing:

Making Ukrainian the sole state language was the final straw for many of them who saw the new government as not being in their interests nor representing them, first having seized control from a government they didn't fight against and then seeing the government disregard them.

1. You claim changing the 'sole state language' is the final straw. Show me how Ukraine wasn't the official language already, and how minority languages are no longer allowed as acceptable secondaries in official means in regional governments. The law changed it so official documentation to the federal government is in Ukranian. What a surprise. That's a nuance you ignore and instead you propagate the RT claim that Russian was being stamped out, or something.

What do you think would happen if Britain took away Welsh's legal authority in Wales? The Welsh nationalists wouldn't be happy.

2. You imply Ukraine has threatened or taken Russian legal authority in Ukraine. Show me where this happened. You can't, since this is a lie and you're being incredibly dishonest in this kind of line of arguement.

The separatists are fighting for their reasons, one of which was Ukrainian being made the sole language at all state levels, we could talk about the separatists themselves and how they feel about this

3. Once again, you claim one of the reasons separatists are fighting for is 'Ukrainian being made the sole language at all state levels'. Can you show me where this was happening? Was Russian being removed from buildings in eastern Ukraine? Russian speakers given a deadline to learn Ukrainian? Once again, it was federal items that need to be in Ukrainian. Sorta like parliament bills being in English in Britain.

This is why I'm ignoring you.

[Loud Whispers]

(removed)

[Darvi]

This is why I'm ignoring you.

No, you're not.

[Guardian G.I.]

Spoiler: The discussion right now (click to show/hide)

Oh, Ukrainian threads, I've missed you and your atmosphere of extreme animosity and hatred so much.

[smjjames]

Enough with the nazi thing, come on.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Yanukovych put up the bill that allowed all 10%+ represented minority held languages to be used alongside Ukrainian. Alongside other languages this also meant the Russiaphone areas would now be able to use Russian officially. The new Ukrainian government repealed this law, and so pissed off the areas such as Crimea where Russian speakers were in the majority. Can you spend less time being a snarky sarcastic prat and actually read over why I made my post in the first place; sensationalist headlines that try to frame this as a conflict between the West and Russia will turn this into a conflict between the West and Russia and obfuscate anything the Ukrainian people want.

So, can you give me a link or two that explains how Ukraine took away [I'll be lenient, I'll even let you give me a link to a threat to take away, I'm setting you free to prove your own claim] Russian's legal authority? Or was that an unsubstantiated claim made out of assumptions?

[Owlbread]

I think Ukrainian-Russian language conflict in Ukraine is over.
No, really. No one cares what language that guy in your combat unit is using. Only few idiots keep seeing it like:  Us=Ukrainian Speaking.  Them=Russian speaking.
Now the only thing that matters - Who defends the country and who collaborates with invaders

After the war that will not matter either, should we build a country were the law is respected.

Quebec like laws will work nicely without turning Ukrainian into a de-facto secondary language of Ukraine like it would be in Putin-dominated Ukraine

Priorities are everything and as you say language doesn't come very high on that list right now.

That said in years ahead (decades perhaps) the nationalist in me (the cultural one, as opposed to the civic one which is dominant in my thinking) would call for the decolonisation of Ukraine. That means the gradual reintroduction of the Ukrainian language back into the now Russified Eastern areas and the reintroduction of Crimean Tatar as the primary official language of Crimea. I would hope that at some point the damage inflicted on Ukraine by the Soviets can be repaired.

(reply to removed post removed)