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[Dutchling]

Remember: Changing official languages is reason enough to murder people in another sovereign nation.

Give examples besides Ukraine, or are you being sarcastic?

He is mocking Loud Whispers

[Owlbread]

Remember: Changing official languages is reason enough to murder people in another sovereign nation.

Languages are serious business.

The problem here is that, despite living in historically Ukrainian speaking regions like Donbass, Russo-Ukrainians tend to consider the Ukrainian language to be a backwards peasant language; the language of farmers and idiots and yokels. Russian, in contrast, is viewed as modern but also beautiful; the language of literature - Pushkin etc, and nostalgic too for its Soviet connotations. If Russo-Ukrainians stopped seeing the Ukrainian language with as much contempt as they do then things would probably be a lot more manageable over there.

The contempt for the Ukrainian language extends into a contempt for Ukrainian culture, history and "Ukrainianness" in general, meaning they don't feel Ukrainian at all. It's a very divided society.

[ivze]

This is quite evident: prove that the all the pro-Russian guys and Russia herself shut down planes and are thus dangerous, and it's time for NATO help.

How do you feel about the conspiracy theory that the Russian apartment bombings in the late 90s were organised by FSB to turn the international community against the Chechens, win the support of the Russian public and frame the second war as part of the War on Terror?

I feel bad, but big politics are extremely dirty. America did the same in 9/11. Such kind of tricks is well-known: they're called false-flag operations.

[smjjames]

Yeah, I support Russia invading and destabilizing a sovereign nation over fantasy delusions of victimization because Ukraine's official language is Ukrainian.

You're definetly being sarcastic now.

Remember: Changing official languages is reason enough to murder people in another sovereign nation.

Languages are serious business.

The problem here is that, despite living in historically Ukrainian speaking regions like Donbass, Russo-Ukrainians tend to consider the Ukrainian language to be a backwards peasant language; the language of farmers and idiots and yokels. Russian, in contrast, is viewed as modern but also beautiful; the language of literature - Pushkin etc, and nostalgic too for its Soviet connotations. If Russo-Ukrainians stopped seeing the Ukrainian language with as much contempt as they do then things would probably be a lot more manageable over there.

Any idea of the origins of them seeing Ukranian as a backwards peasant tounge?

[smjjames]

This is quite evident: prove that the all the pro-Russian guys and Russia herself shut down planes and are thus dangerous, and it's time for NATO help.

How do you feel about the conspiracy theory that the Russian apartment bombings in the late 90s were organised by FSB to turn the international community against the Chechens, win the support of the Russian public and frame the second war as part of the War on Terror?

I feel bad, but big politics are extremely dirty. America did the same in 9/11. Such kind of tricks is well-known: they're called false-flag operations.

Oh come on, don't tell me you are a 9/11 truther and you think the US government is behind the planes slamming into the towers.

Edit: Sorry for double post, got a couple "warning a post has been made" messages and thought people were posting still.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Any idea of the origins of them seeing Ukranian as a backwards peasant tounge?

Lots and lots of propaganda and confirmation bias nurturing, modern day Russian media is as propaganda-filled as the USSR, so I can't blame them for being entirely led to believe everyone is out to get them since the state media is so effective. Saturation is bound to lead to absorption.

[Owlbread]

I feel bad, but big politics are extremely dirty. America did the same in 9/11. Such kind of tricks is well-known: they're called false-flag operations.

False flags and deceit do seem to be the norm in the former Soviet Union, I will give you that.

Any idea of the origins of them seeing Ukranian as a backwards peasant tounge?

Because for centuries the Ukrainian people lived under the heel of Russia (though they are an older nation) and they were mostly peasants and the association stuck. Mictlantecuhtli put it better. It's the same thing that happened in Scotland and England and Ireland and Wales; all over Europe in fact. Ukrainian Ranger knows about this a lot better than I do I'm sure so maybe he will give you a better answer.

[Loud Whispers]

Yeah, having your own internal affairs and decisions would upset a dictator who thinks he owns the country, thanks for understanding why Russia is murdering people in Ukraine currently. You've also completely mischaracterized this arguement, again, as I figured. We've beaten this to death, Russian was a secondary language on-law in these areas and was not going to be changed. But thanks for playing into the RT propaganda? I guess changing official languages is reason enough to go murdering people.

Remember: Changing official languages is reason enough to murder people in another sovereign nation.

Yeah, I support Russia invading and destabilizing a sovereign nation over fantasy delusions of victimization because Ukraine's official language is Ukrainian.

And again we see why we can't have peace. The separatists don't support the militias and 'self defence forces' that are roaming around and getting their regions incorporated into Russia, they just hate the Ukrainian government and distrust it. Making Ukrainian the sole state language was the final straw for many of them who saw the new government as not being in their interests nor representing them, first having seized control from a government they didn't fight against and then seeing the government disregard them. What do you think would happen if Britain took away Welsh's legal authority in Wales? The Welsh nationalists wouldn't be happy. The Russians aren't fighting because Ukraine's official language is Ukrainian, they're fighting to protect their black sea fleet. The separatists are fighting for their reasons, one of which was Ukrainian being made the sole language at all state levels, we could talk about the separatists themselves and how they feel about this, or we can be hyperbolic and accuse everyone who has a different opinion as either being pro-Russia or pro-Ukraine but then we'd be Americans.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

What do you think would happen if Britain took away Welsh's legal authority in Wales? The Welsh nationalists wouldn't be happy. The Russians aren't fighting because Ukraine's official language is Ukrainian, they're fighting to protect their black sea fleet. The separatists are fighting for their reasons, one of which was Ukrainian being made the sole language at all state levels

What? Seriously, this is lol-worthy. I'm not even humoring you anymore. Get your facts straight and come back to me on why Ukraine is to blame for this.

[Loud Whispers]

(removed)

[Mictlantecuhtli]

I'm not even humoring you anymore.

Hint. Get facts and come back to me with a reasoned argument, get me a link or two showing the Ukrainian government threatening or taking away Russian legal authority and maybe I'll take you off my ignore list.

[smjjames]

LoudWhispers, I think your sarcasm detector isn't working.

[Owlbread]

And again we see why we can't have peace. The separatists don't support the militias and 'self defence forces' that are roaming around and getting their regions incorporated into Russia, they just hate the Ukrainian government and distrust it.

This is true.

Making Ukrainian the sole state language was the final straw

Again it has always been the sole state language, even under the Party of Regions. The only change was in regional language law which allowed regions to ignore the official country-wide language legislation that made Ukrainian essential.

or many of them who saw the new government as not being in their interests nor representing them, first having seized control from a government they didn't fight against and then seeing the government disregard them. What do you think would happen if Britain took away Welsh's legal authority in Wales? The Welsh nationalists wouldn't be happy. The Russians aren't fighting because Ukraine's official language is Ukrainian, they're fighting to protect their black sea fleet.

It's quite interesting though. If you said that they took away the right of the Welsh to use Welsh in legislation that would be understandable, but what the Ukrainian government effectively did was take away the right to use Russian "only". Is the Welsh government allowed to use Welsh-only in legislation? Isn't it the case that they are allowed to be billingual, and thus always are? I don't think there was anything stopping the Russian regions from using Russian in that regional affairs capacity as long as they used Ukrainian too. It was the fact that they were compelled to even think of using Ukrainian at a regional level that sparked this; contempt is a powerful emotion.

The separatists are fighting for their reasons, one of which was Ukrainian being made the sole language at all state levels, we could talk about the separatists themselves and how they feel about this, or we can be hyperbolic and accuse everyone who has a different opinion as either being pro-Russia or pro-Ukraine but then we'd be Americans.

Again, I think Ukrainian was always the sole language at all state levels. The Russian legislation was regional.

[Loud Whispers]

LoudWhispers, I think your sarcasm detector isn't working.

Mict edited their sentence.

[mainiac]

I feel bad, but big politics are extremely dirty. America did the same in 9/11. Such kind of tricks is well-known: they're called false-flag operations.

Nice to know that your worldview is based around conspiracy theories.  Really clarifies things for the rest of us.

It is very safe to assume Russia is supplying the rebels with weapons but without concrete proof or an admission from Putin's naughty cabinet it's a useless assumption that serves only to stoke the coals of war. There is also the possibility that it was a stolen Ukrainian missile. There is also the fact that the Russians weren't the ones who shot down the plane.

Without a confession we can't know?  You sure seem to be willing to damn the ukrainians for less then that.  You accuse the west of beating the drums of war based on nothing but a gut feeling.  But the russians arm those who commit attacks against civilians and are proven to do that and we can't know.