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[palsch]

...gay gene?

The article is a good summary of the idea and topic, if slightly outdated now. Otherwise google is your friend.

To be unhelpful and stupidly pedantic, they're all tabloids now since they gave up broadsheet format.

Telegraph is still broadsheet, while the Guardian/Observer are Berliner, seemingly just so they aren't tabloids...

Even so, there was a traditional divide between the red tops and compacts, with the red tops being openly sensationalist and populist while the others are just generally awful in their own ways.

[Owlbread]

David Cameron has personally accused Putin of "contributing to an appalling tragedy" over the plane being shot down, promising the freezing of Russian assets etc. But to be frank, Putin has done far, far worse than this. For his actions in Chechnya alone he deserves to be put away in prison for the rest of his life. I gain no satisfaction from this and I doubt the families of his victims ever will.

[palsch]

BBC has been given footage by a local rebel group of them searching the wreckage in the immediate aftermath.

It shows them going through bags and belongings, seemingly focused on getting hold of the black boxes as well as memory sticks and other information. They seem to be comfortable releasing this, saying it doesn't show them doing anything wrong.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Question to Dutch bay12yers

Spoiler: Is that a real letter from Dutch soldiers to Dutch Ministry of Defense? What does it say? (click to show/hide)

[Dutchling]

Yeah, seems legitimate.

-removed my tl;dr, misread a sentence-

[Loud Whispers]

Spoiler: The British press is incredibly impartial and objective in their coverage of MH17's shootdown - they don't jump to conclusions and don't make hasty emotional accusations, unlike the horrible propaganda-filled Russian media (click to show/hide)

My favourite one was MASSACRE IN THE SKY AS RUSSIAN MISSILE SHOOTS DOWN MALAYSIAN AIRLINES FLIGHT
Very calm

[martinuzz]

It seems the UK government is keen on going back to Cold War status with Russia.

David Cameron wrote a letter today, to be published in major Dutch newspapers.
In this letter he advocates stronger action and even compares Putin to Hitler, albeit indirectly.

He wrote: "In Europe, we should not be reminded of what happens, when we look away, when smaller nations are bullied by larger nations. Yet we need to be reminded."

and

"Almost 25 years ago, the NATO meeting that ended the Cold War was held in Great-Britain.
Six weeks from now, another NATO meeting, which has Russian relations as it's main theme, will be held in Great-Britain.
It is up to Russia to decide how relations will develop."

The full letter can be read here, for those who can read Dutch: http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/3184/opinie/article/detail/3692784/2014/07/21/De-ingezonden-brief-van-David-Cameron-Het-is-tijd-om-onze-macht-te-doen-gelden.dhtml

[Sergarr]

I wonder how much that will strengthen the No votes...

[10ebbor10]

Question to Dutch bay12yers

Spoiler: Is that a real letter from Dutch soldiers to Dutch Ministry of Defense? What does it say? (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: rough translation (click to show/hide)

Four days have passed since the disaster with flight m17 of malasyia airlines. Days of intense loss, compasion and sorrow.

The wreckage of the plane and the bodies of the victims are spread through kilometers of warzone. An area in the east of ukraine that is contested by ukrainian governement forces and pro russuan separatists.

What is happening to the remains of the victims, including almost 200 dutch citizens is disrespectfull and intolerable.

The OSCE has no control over the situation.

On social media people are calling for acts instead of words.

Please direct your influence to convince prime minister Rutte to deploy (asap) dutch soldiars to eastern ukraine and -in consideration with the legitimate authorities-  with all needed and justified means take tge initiative to give the victims that which they deserve.

It's the least we can do for our innocent countrymembers who died due to escalated war idiotry there.

PS Dutch soldiers are aware of their position as executive? force and will only act if their commanders, after carefull consuderation, deem this to be nessecairy.

[martinuzz]

Question to Dutch bay12yers
Is that a real letter from Dutch soldiers to Dutch Ministry of Defense? What does it say?]

I have translated the letter for you, here:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Mrs J.A. Hennis-Plasschaert,

Since the disaster that downed Malaysia Airlines' passenger flight MH17, four days have passed.
Days of intense sorrow, compassion, and mourning.

The wreckage of the plane, and the soulless bodies of it's passengers have been spread miles wide, in a war zone.
An area in the east of the Ukraine, that is being contested by Ukrainian forces and pro-Russian seperatists.

Respected minister, what is happening right now to the remains of the passengers, amongst whom were nearly 200 Dutch citizens, is profane, disrespectful, disgusting, and utterly intolerable.

The OVSE officials on site are unable to control the situation.

Social media is being flooded with calls for actions instead of words.

As a respected member of our government, please use your influence to make prime minister Rutte decide to send military forces to Eastern Ukraine, a.s.a.p., and -in conclave with legitimate Ukrainian authority- use all means possible to regain initiative, grab momentum, and pay proper respect to the victims.

This would be the very least we can do for our fellow countrymen, that have died innocently to a local war-craze spun out of control.

High regards,

Adjutant Marcel
Royal Dutch Ground Forces

N.B. Dutch military are very aware of their position as executive force, and will only take action after their superiors, after careful decision making, deem this nescessary.

Is this authentic? Possible. Dutch military are entitled to have a personal opinion, and if they so wish, express this to the minister of Defense (Mrs. J.A. Hennis-Plasschaert) in a letter.
Does this mean anything? Not really, except show the sentiment that a lot of people here have, which is logical just days after losing that many fellow countrymen.

[Dutchling]

Yeah, it's really only the people who read the Dutch versions of the papers LW posted who share his sentiment. That and a bunch of soldiers I guess.

Not particularly competent soldiers, that is. I'm pretty sure we're still waiting for our helicopter from when we tried to rescue some people in Libya -.-'

[Myrkky100]

Kiev willing to hand control of crash probe to West

This would make sense as far as having an impartial investigation goes. And I bet Kiev wouldn't mind having foreign investigators milling around the rebel-held areas and observing everything that's going on, including the Russian influence...

Also Fighting erupts in Ukraine as crash investigators arrive

[Sergarr]

Kiev willing to hand control of crash probe to West

This would make sense as far as having an impartial investigation goes. And I bet Kiev wouldn't mind having foreign investigators milling around the rebel-held areas and observing everything that's going on, including the Russian influence...

Also Fighting erupts in Ukraine as crash investigators arrive

It's not like there weren't foreign investigators there before (OBSE)

[Myrkky100]

Kiev willing to hand control of crash probe to West

This would make sense as far as having an impartial investigation goes. And I bet Kiev wouldn't mind having foreign investigators milling around the rebel-held areas and observing everything that's going on, including the Russian influence...

Also Fighting erupts in Ukraine as crash investigators arrive

It's not like there weren't foreign investigators there before (OBSE)

Yep, but I think this proposal would mean more people for a longer time and as representatives of their own country instead of OSCE.

[mainiac]

My favourite one was MASSACRE IN THE SKY AS RUSSIAN MISSILE SHOOTS DOWN MALAYSIAN AIRLINES FLIGHT
Very calm

What exactly is the problem with this statement?  Is this a massacre?  Well a large number of people were killed indiscriminately.  That meets the dictionary definition of massacre.  It took place in the sky.  The flight was shot down. The weapon that did the shooting was directly supplied by the Russian government, a "russian missile" without the slightest bit of exaggeration.  Not one word is inaccurate nor exaggerated.

It's important not to rush to judgement but this late in the game it isn't rushing to judgement to conclude the obvious.