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Author Topic: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!  (Read 1751769 times)

Dutchling

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #4215 on: March 01, 2014, 07:05:05 am »

Something as logical and straightforward as that goes against all of the European Union's bureaucratic morals and values though.
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Sheb

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #4216 on: March 01, 2014, 07:27:59 am »

That would  be fun, negotiating accession of a state that doesn't exist yet. :p
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Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #4217 on: March 01, 2014, 07:46:46 am »

That would  be fun, negotiating accession of a state that doesn't exist yet. :p

This is exactly why we cannot negotiate for it now. The only people that could negotiate on our behalf are the UK government who still represent us. They could actually do that right now, but until we gain a mandate for independence the British government is refusing to negotiate over anything like that.

They're doggedly refusing to pre-negotiate anything, in fact. That includes currency union. It's part of their attempts to make independence seem as difficult and uncertain as possible, turning people off.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 07:52:58 am by Owlbread »
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Max White

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #4218 on: March 02, 2014, 12:35:10 am »

Well Owlbread you will be pleased to hear that Aus Labor member and former PM Kevin Rudd has shown support for a 'united UK', saying that Scotland is best where it is now... So yea, it is possible the entire worldwide Labor movement was formulated to subjugate Scotland. Have fun with that thought.

Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #4219 on: March 02, 2014, 08:32:11 am »

Well Owlbread you will be pleased to hear that Aus Labor member and former PM Kevin Rudd has shown support for a 'united UK', saying that Scotland is best where it is now... So yea, it is possible the entire worldwide Labor movement was formulated to subjugate Scotland. Have fun with that thought.

Well, Julia Gillard's old advisor John McTernan is over here right now as some kind of head advisor or something for Scottish Labour. He's a complete intellectual lightweight who actually argues that there is no such thing as British nationalism, rather it has been invented by the SNP.
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Chaoswizkid

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #4220 on: March 02, 2014, 08:41:40 am »

He's a complete intellectual lightweight who actually argues that there is no such thing as British nationalism

Is that even possible, that a country or region, any country or region, doesn't have any nationalism at all?

Is he honestly saying that he thinks everyone in Britain doesn't give a fuck if they're called British or French?
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Darvi

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #4221 on: March 02, 2014, 08:44:46 am »

Oi, Not liking the French doesn't mean I like Britain.

I mean, I kinda do, but not enough to go around singing national anthems or stuff.
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scriver

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #4222 on: March 02, 2014, 09:11:36 am »

The only way one could argue UK does not have nationalism is to adhere to a where narrow definition of nationalism that not really mirrors the way it is used in daily tongue. If one defines "nationalism" as in "wanting to unite/combine several more or less similar cultures into one for the 'greaterment of all [people of that culture]", whether forcefully or not, then yeah, it could be said that Britain doesn't have nationalism, given that it's more of "unionism" in that way - keeping several more or less different cultures tied together in one state. If one however goes by the more commonly meant definition "of self-aggrandisingly patriotic, conservative, jingoistic* mindset" then yeah, obviously there's no place that doesn't have nationalism.

* Whether aggressively or defensively. Or is "defensive jingoism" an oxymoron? "Militaristically insular" might be a better word. Basically like Schweizerland.
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Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #4223 on: March 02, 2014, 10:41:39 am »

The only way one could argue UK does not have nationalism is to adhere to a where narrow definition of nationalism that not really mirrors the way it is used in daily tongue. If one defines "nationalism" as in "wanting to unite/combine several more or less similar cultures into one for the 'greaterment of all [people of that culture]", whether forcefully or not, then yeah, it could be said that Britain doesn't have nationalism, given that it's more of "unionism" in that way - keeping several more or less different cultures tied together in one state.

The thing is though Scriver a number of parties want to do exactly that. Basically every mainstream Westminster political party, in fact. Granted they're happy to string people together as part of a multicultural, multinational union but that doesn't really explain Labour's new slogan "One Nation". The Westminster parties in relation to the independence debate are all about uniting our cultures into one, though allowing us to remain autonomous ("a strong Scotland in a United Kingdom" etc).

That said, in common British parlance "British Nationalism" tends to be along ethnic lines and it tends to be English in nature; these groups just lump all "British" people, whether they're Scots or Welsh or English or Northern Irish, into one big group of White People standing in opposition to the hordes of unsightly brown people ruining England's green and pleasant land with their Islamic barbarity. See the British National Party, UKIP, the National Front, English Defence League, British Union of Fascists and so on. These parties are more about "shipping immigrants back" than anything else and keeping Britain white and ethnically "British" (even though there is no such thing).

These groups don't tend to do so well outside of parts of ethnically divided England, though in Scotland and Northern Ireland the small gains they have made have been for different reasons. This is where the other manifestation of British nationalism comes into play. In Northern Ireland and Scotland, British nationalism is what crops up as a way of expressing hatred of Irish Catholics, or in a more general sense opposition to the Republic of Ireland's claim in Northern Ireland. The case for Northern Ireland being a British province is generally founded in a sense of "British solidarity" among certain Protestant Northern Irishmen who claim Lowland Scottish ancestry, but their Britishness only goes so far I feel. If you forgive my crude generalisation, the Northern Irish hate the English as much as Scots are alleged to. It's more about opposing Catholicism and the RoI than anything else.

On the few occasions that the two strands of British nationalism interact with one another they tend to find that for some reason anti-Irishness, Sectarianism, Conservatism/Right-Wing ideology, British Unionism (which is usually a very nakedly nationalist ideology) and White Nationalism go hand in hand, leading to the creation of groups like the Scottish Defence League or the National Front in Scotland. Rabid Rangers Fans, in other words. This is why bigotry plagues British Unionist groups in Scotland far more than it does the pro-independence groups. You might hear the odd independence supporter with more keys on his keyboard than brain cells telling David Cameron to "fuck off back to England" but that's nothing compared to what you'll hear from the far-right groups campaigning for a No vote. Fringe they may be, yes, but as far as fringes go they're pretty awful compared to our fringe groups. The worst we've got are Gaelic-speaking Communists.
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Henny

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #4224 on: March 02, 2014, 11:43:02 am »

:D airships.
Quote
Technology has come a long way since then. The Hybrid Air Vehicle (HAV) is full of inert helium, not explosive hydrogen.
That's a show-stopper right there. Helium is just too scarce a resource for any kind of mass-use of airships.
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scriver

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #4225 on: March 02, 2014, 11:53:07 am »

As I said, forcing different cultures into a union rather than similar/related cultures. I know the average Scot and Englander is probably as different culturally as the average Scot and Swede in this day and age so it might not be as relevant, but I'm looking at it on a bigger timescale and in light of the cultural suppression. If the idea behind nationalism is the unity of similar or related cultures, then the assimilation of non-english British cultures wouldn't fit in a historical perspective. Given how closely tied you are today, though, it might be more appropriate to call the English behaviour "nationalism" rather than "pseudo-Imperialism", I dunno.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #4226 on: March 02, 2014, 12:16:56 pm »

:D airships.
Quote
Technology has come a long way since then. The Hybrid Air Vehicle (HAV) is full of inert helium, not explosive hydrogen.
That's a show-stopper right there. Helium is just too scarce a resource for any kind of mass-use of airships.
Helium isn't that scarce really. I mean, we can still put it into party balloons. The US alone has 4.2 billion m3 of helium reserves. The air lander requires 103,000 m³. So yeah, millions of airships is problematic, but really, even the best cast is limited to a few hundred because of their cost.

Besides, this is a hybrid airship, which means that it shouldn't need to vend much, if any,  helium during flight.
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Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #4227 on: March 02, 2014, 05:17:52 pm »

I understand we have a few Polish members of the forums that may read this thread from time to time. You too can get involved in the campaign for Scottish independence by joining the "Polish for Yes" platform within the Yes Campaign.



Behold:

Their facebook page.
Their twitter account.
Their small homepage on the YesScotland website, under construction.
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Darvi

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #4228 on: March 02, 2014, 05:29:15 pm »

You don't want Haspen on your side. Trust me on this one.
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Guardian G.I.

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #4229 on: March 02, 2014, 05:30:54 pm »

You don't want Haspen on your side. Trust me on this one.
On a completely unrelated note, I haven't seen him anywhere on the forum recently.
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this means that a donation of 30 dollars to a developer that did not deliver would equal 4.769*10^-14 hitlers stolen from you
that's like half a femtohitler
and that is terrible
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