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[Steeled]

An Abandoned Russian Cruise Ship Infested With 'Cannibal Rats' Could Soon Crash Into Britain

http://www.businessinsider.com/abandoned-russian-cruise-ship-lyubov-orlova-heading-for-britian-2014-1

[Max White]

Well look on the bright side... They might eat all the other rats!

[Loud Whispers]

The diseases they bring however, would be rather nasty. If Scotland were to become independent, they would not be able to keep the standard of the Royal Navy up and as a result would leave the Scottish coast - and subsequently Wales and England vulnerable to diseased ruskie rat invaders.

[XXSockXX]

Apparently the Uk will still be in the EU when the rats arrive.

[WarRoot]

Does the Queen hate line charts?

Apparently the bloke who invented line graphs had the surname of Playfair. A Scottish bloke in the age of enlightenment, but what a name!
So it would be odd if she did. I don't know, maybe she was traumatized by rabid line graphs as a child. These things happen on a weekly basis.

Scottish? I guess then it has less to do with the Queen but with the BBC.  They are sending a message stating that the Scots have no business inside the land of England and can stuff their line graphs in their haggis.

[Owlbread]

He's lurking in wait to spring upon us further news of Glorious Peoples Republic of the Highlands and Those Other Guys.

This is true. I may be forced to make a megathread in the next few months if things go into overdrive, but there has been a number of events in Scottish politics that I have not discussed because I didn't want to flood the thread.

The Scottish politician whose views most closely match my own, Jim Sillars, former leader of the SNP, has proposed that with independence we should claim one of the Royal Navy's aircraft carriers and name it the "Robert Burns". It would then be turned into an enormous hospital ship and sent to Africa and Asia to be used in providing humanitarian aid at a cost to the Scottish taxpayer of roughly £35 million per year. I wouldn't call it the Robert Burns though, I'd maybe prefer the "Livingstone".

He also suggested that we nationalise our oil industry, creating the Scottish National Oil Corporation, that we create a nationalised central bank and that we acquire our own currency rather than retaining the pound sterling or taking on the euro. The last proposal I read about was that we should implement "Islamic funding mechanisms" to attract investment from gulf states, allowing us to fund a boom in council housing development.

[Andrew425]

Why on earth would you use a aircraft carrier for that purpose?  Why not use a normal freighter?

Also have fun watching your currency bounce like a yoyo.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Owlbread, BTW what do you plan to do with division of British Navy\Airforce\Army? Military hardware isn't cheap at all, so I doubt that in case of Scottish independence that will be solved easily

Also, what kind of defense industry is located in Scotland?

[Dutchling]

Also, what kind of defense industry is located in Scotland?

They got nookulars there.

[Helgoland]

The Scottish politician whose views most closely match my own, Jim Sillars, former leader of the SNP, has proposed that with independence we should claim one of the Royal Navy's aircraft carriers and name it the "Robert Burns". It would then be turned into an enormous hospital ship and sent to Africa and Asia to be used in providing humanitarian aid at a cost to the Scottish taxpayer of roughly £35 million per year. I wouldn't call it the Robert Burns though, I'd maybe prefer the "Livingstone".

He also suggested that we nationalise our oil industry, creating the Scottish National Oil Corporation, that we create a nationalised central bank and that we acquire our own currency rather than retaining the pound sterling or taking on the euro. The last proposal I read about was that we should implement "Islamic funding mechanisms" to attract investment from gulf states, allowing us to fund a boom in council housing development.

He sounds like a madman... But madmen make good politicians sometimes. What are your/his views on... more realistic matters?

[Owlbread]

Why on earth would you use a aircraft carrier for that purpose?  Why not use a normal freighter?

Presumably Mr. Sillars believes we will be running a very, very large hospital and apparently we're going to be flying patients there by jet rather than just by helicopter. You know, rather than using a freighter anchored somewhere off the coast of Somalia and flying patients in by helicopter (as may be more sensible), Mr. Sillars seems to be thinking big. He said that we needed to use soft power rather than military might in the future.

Also have fun watching your currency bounce like a yoyo.

This is why I advocate the retention of the Pound Sterling for a transitional period of, for instance, 10-20 years or at least until we could safely adopt our own currency, hopefully as strong as Norwegian Kroner.

What kind of defense industry is located in Scotland?

We are the main centre of the UK for shipbuilding and have been for at least 200 years. We still make the majority of their warships and, due to the recent closure of shipyards in Portsmouth in England, we're going to be taking on even more work. The defence industry here is thus focused on naval matters primarily; much of the British "Trident" nuclear deterrent is placed at the naval base Faslane on the West Coast of Scotland, taking the form of nuclear submarines.

I think we should continue to manufacture warships for other countries post-independence if possible. The defence industry here is nowhere near as lucrative as it was in Victorian times but it's still an important part of our economy.

Owlbread, BTW what do you plan to do with division of British Navy\Airforce\Army? Military hardware isn't cheap at all, so I doubt that in case of Scottish independence that will be solved easily

You could say that, although we have a model for our military that should be quite affordable with an overall budget of around £2.5 billion. The sixth wealthiest country in the world i.e. us (or so I keep hearing) should be able to afford it. It may be comparable to that of Denmark, slightly larger perhaps than that of Ireland but I'm not entirely sure.

These are the five "defence priorities" outlined by the SNP:

• Maintaining the commitment to a budget for defence and security in an independent Scotland of £2.5 billion.
• Securing the speediest safe withdrawal of nuclear weapons from Scotland
• Building a focus on maritime capabilities, such as air and sea-based patrol, and specialist forces able to operate around our coasts, protecting Scotland's maritime assets and contributing to collective security in the North Atlantic.
• Progressively building to a total of 15,000 regular and 5,000 reserve personnel over the 10 years following independence.
• Reconfiguring the defence estate inherited at the point of independence to meet Scotland's needs, including the transition of Faslane to a conventional naval base and joint headquarters of the Scottish defence forces.
  

They hope to reach that position through a "phased approach"; 7,500 regular and 2,000 reserve soldiers will be inherited from the UK at the point of independence, then that will grow to 10,000 regulars and 3,500 reserves by the end of the five years following independence, "subject to consideration in the strategic defence review".

As part of our "inheritance" we will attempt to gain the Scottish regiments that currently exist within the British army, including those that were amalgamated in recent years and retained as battalions. That means the acquisition of the Royal Regiment of Scotland and the Scots Guards. The battalions within them (e.g. the Black Watch) become regiments again and old, long-lost regiments like the HLI (Highland Light Infantry) will return as well. A few regiments like the Gordons, the Seaforths and the Camerons were even amalgamated into one battalion, but they will come back I believe. The amalgamations were quite a personal issue for a lot of Scots in the mid 2000s.

All the military bases that are within Scotland will continue to operate. Faslane will become the main base of operations for the Scottish Navy and also the main headquarters for the SDF as a whole.

Spoiler: The defence forces should look a bit like this overall at the point of independence: (click to show/hide)

Navy

One naval squadron to secure Scotland's maritime interests and Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) and contribute to joint capability with partners in Scotland's geographical neighbourhood, consisting of:

• Two frigates from the Royal Navy's current fleet
• A command platform for naval operations and development of specialist marine capabilities (from the Royal Navy's current fleet, following adaptation)
• Four mine control measure vessels from the RN's current fleet.
• Two offshore patrol vessels (OPVs) to provide security for the 200 nautical mile Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ). However, as the RN only has four OPVs currently, a longer lead time for procurement might be necessary.
• Four to six patrol boats from the RN's current fleet, capable of operating in coastal waters, providing fleet protection and also contributing to securing borders.
• Auxiliary support ships (providing support to vessels on operations), which could be secured on a shared basis initially with the rest of the UK.

All this comes to roughly 2,000 regular personnel and at least 200 reserves upon gaining independence.

Land Forces

An Army HQ function and an all-arms brigade, with three infantry/marine units, equipped initially from a negotiated share of current UK assets, and supported by:

• A deployable Brigade HQ
• Two light armoured reconnaissance units
• Two light artillery units
• One engineer unit deploying a range of equipment for bridging, mine clearance and engineering functions
• One aviation unit operating six helicopters for reconnaissance and liaison
• Two communication units
• One transport unit
• One logistics unit
• One medical unit

Special forces, explosives and ordnance disposal teams will bring the total to around 3,500 regular and at least 1,200 reserve personnel.

Air Force

The air force will focus primarily on the ability to police Scottish airspace within NATO. It will consist of:

• An Air Force HQ function (with staff embedded within NATO structures)
• Scotland will remain part of NATO's integrated Air Command and Control (AC2) system, initially through agreement with allies to maintain the current arrangements while Scotland establishes and develops our own AC2 personnel and facility within Scotland within five years of independence.
• A quick reaction alert (QRA) squadron incorporating a minimum of 12 Typhoon jets based at the (currently British) airbase of Lossiemouth
• A tactical air transport squadron, including around six Hercules C130J aircraft, and a helicopter squadron.
• Flight training through joint arrangement with allies.

In total this would require around 2,000 regular personnel and around 300 reserve personnel.

I have further details on what the SDF will look like after 5 years, or at least what the SNP would concentrate on developing. I also have information on veteran/service personnel policies like ensuring that soldiers will not face compulsory redundancy during their service contract. Soldiers being transferred to the SDF will be able to remain within their current UK units and so on for at least a transitional period and the hope is that post-independence not only will we have soldiers from all over the Commonwealth serving, but we will also (with agreement from the UK "and our allies") have Scottish soldiers serving in other Commonwealth armies as well.

So all you Canadians and Aussies may very well be encountering one or two Scottish troops in the future if you join your respective armies/navies etc.

He sounds like a madman... But madmen make good politicians sometimes. What are your/his views on... more realistic matters?

He is a madman, yes. Truly. But if you have a realistic matter in mind I am more than happy to answer you there.

Here he is making a speech summing up his case for independence:

Speaking on his book/case "In Place of Fear"

[10ebbor10]

Why on earth would you use a aircraft carrier for that purpose?  Why not use a normal freighter?

Presumably Mr. Sillars believes we will be running a very, very large hospital and apparently we're going to be flying patients there by jet rather than just by helicopter. You know, rather than using a freighter anchored somewhere off the coast of Somalia and flying patients in by helicopter (as may be more sensible), Mr. Sillars seems to be thinking big. He said that we needed to use soft power rather than military might in the future.

Well, it certainly brings across a message, thought it might be not that effective. Very symbolical, to say the least.

Also have fun watching your currency bounce like a yoyo.

This is why I advocate the retention of the Pound Sterling for a transitional period of, for instance, 10-20 years or at least until we could safely adopt our own currency, hopefully as strong as Norwegian Kroner.

20 years is a long time. The kroner, Pound or Euro might no longer exist by that point. Though keeping the pound might be problematic for export based industries. A low currency makes exporting easy, after all.

What kind of defense industry is located in Scotland?

We are the main centre of the UK for shipbuilding and have been for at least 200 years. We still make the majority of their warships and, due to the recent closure of shipyards in Portsmouth in England, we're going to be taking on even more work. The defence industry here is thus focused on naval matters primarily; much of the British "Trident" nuclear deterrent is placed at the naval base Faslane on the West Coast of Scotland, taking the form of nuclear submarines.

I think we should continue to manufacture warships for other countries post-independence if possible. The defence industry here is nowhere near as lucrative as it was in Victorian times but it's still an important part of our economy.

Probably going to continue diminishing though, like all heavy industry in the west. One benefit of having your own currency could be that it might make these shipyards much more profitable.

Also, richest countries is based of GDP per capita. So, being one of the richest countries doesn't help you if you're quite small, like Luxembourg. Doubt they're going to get their own aircraft carrier.

He's lurking in wait to spring upon us further news of Glorious Peoples Republic of the Highlands and Those Other Guys.

This is true. I may be forced to make a megathread in the next few months if things go into overdrive, but there has been a number of events in Scottish politics that I have not discussed because I didn't want to flood the thread.

The Scottish politician whose views most closely match my own, Jim Sillars, former leader of the SNP, has proposed that with independence we should claim one of the Royal Navy's aircraft carriers and name it the "Robert Burns". It would then be turned into an enormous hospital ship and sent to Africa and Asia to be used in providing humanitarian aid at a cost to the Scottish taxpayer of roughly £35 million per year. I wouldn't call it the Robert Burns though, I'd maybe prefer the "Livingstone".

He also suggested that we nationalise our oil industry, creating the Scottish National Oil Corporation, that we create a nationalised central bank and that we acquire our own currency rather than retaining the pound sterling or taking on the euro. The last proposal I read about was that we should implement "Islamic funding mechanisms" to attract investment from gulf states, allowing us to fund a boom in council housing development.

[/quote]
Agreed. Livingstone is more interesting name, regardless of the figure behind it.

Anyway, as for the oil industry, I'm not sure you'd get away with it. The UK has done a good job convincing key islands to be pro-Union, and is probably going to insist that they get to stay with the Union. From there, it's only a small step to claim the majority of the oil fields, which are centered around these islands. Wouldn't be the first time something like this happened.

As for Islamic funding mechanisms, that could be interesting. Should certainly work, and might indeed attract investement.

[Helgoland]

Owlbread, I meant day-to-day fields of politics - social issues, the Euro/EU membership, position on military interventions, health care policies, stance on drug legislation, etc. Just stuff, you know?

[Andrew425]

I don't think you can land anything bigger then a fighter jet on British Carriers. Plus you'd need to have a naval squadron to protect it plus numerous naval bases all across Africa along with another naval fleet delivering supplies to them.

Though the real question is how you get the British to give up a ship or even a soldier.  I doubt they'd let you take them as the individual soldiers signed up to fight in the British army. So you're likely going to be stuck with no equipment or troops and very little military knowledge of how to train them.

Also the Scottish economy will be quite small.  You don't have the population to compete in GDP per country

[misko27]

The sixth wealthiest country in the world i.e. us (or so I keep hearing) should be able to afford it.

It is really difficult to get accurate statistics on this, but it's not quite that rosy. Depending on your measurement and source, you are anywhere from 21st to 7th.

Of course, one of those lists says Libya (104.5 growth. That seems off by a order of magnitude) and Afghanistan (12.5. Interestingly, they also have a really low GINI number, 29. So for your booming, equal paradise untainted by capitalism: Choose Afghanistan, main export: Opium.) have the most GDP growth, so take that with a grain of salt.