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[Comrade P.]

Dammit, if it is really like you describe, something really bad may happen inUkraine first, and then in the Europe and European Russia.

You know, I heard opinions that all the stuff is going on like that because a generation that forgot the horrors of war - WWII - has grown up and wants some action in former USSR and particularly Ukraine. Once again, I can't make a complete picture from my position, but it seems to me that there is some sense in these words. What do you folks think?

[Helgoland]

Well, I can only speak for myself, but I'd take up a rifle for a cause I belive in, as long as there was a chance of success. European civil war, civil war within Ukraine (if the West gave support), Syria (if the West gave support and the secular rebels were stronger)...
Unless I'm too scared, of course

[Comrade P.]

You've quite illustrated the point I presented. I mean, my parents and grandparents confess that they would raise their weapons only against the open outer agression, and that their most terrible nightmare is war. And modern generation has no doubt to raise their weapons even in civil war, so the agression escalates.

[PanH]

I wouldn't, I would try to flee if my country was at war.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I thought Svoboda was pro-EU...

Svoboda is a mix between 2 and 3.  More radical nationalist groups often name us as western puppets fake nationalists because of that

So there is no history of a historical nation in the Eastern/Donbas area? Besides ethnic Ukrainians?

Nope, Donbass was never a historical nation.
But it is a "melting pot" region, most of it's cities were founded in mid 19th century when large scale mining and industrialization began in the area. So the region was populated by people from all Russian Empire. Ukrainians, Belorussians, Russians, Tatars and so on. As for rural population - it was severely reduced in size during 1932\1933. So it is hard to expect pro-Ukrainian notions in region like that.

[Helgoland]

Comrade, I would rather fight in a civil than in a national war - I don't really care if I'm ruled from Berlin, London or Moscow, as long as the policies are right. I'd see no reason to march against France (except tradition, maybe), but you'd definitely see me holding the Rhine bridges or doing something similar if/when a civil war comes around and the Rechtsstaat* needs to be defended. Everybody needs some things they'd gladly die for, don't you agree?



*I looked it up, that's an English word!

[Max White]

At this point I'm not that much more attached to my government or population than anybody else. I mean I would prefer a peaceful option where ever possible, but if I'm going to war then civil war is as good as any.

[Comrade P.]

Helgoland, I see your point. I understand it fully. I have mine more resembling to Max White's, exept I can't say any war is fine, I say any war is unacceptable.

I'd rather live in a police state than in democracy, if it guarantees safety from any inner or outer threats.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

If you live in a police state, you are facing an inner threat, that being the police state. In that scenario, you are only safe if you're at the top and towing the party line.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I'd rather live in a police state than in democracy, if it guarantees safety from any inner or outer threats.

You see. Domesticated pig have much safer and more comfortable life than a wild one but....

[Comrade P.]

I think you mean potential threat of being taken away by something resembling KGB any moment without explanation of reason. My point here is odd, because I don't really scared of that. If my arrest is unjustified, then I will end up badly, but those multiple arrests prove themselves to be effective against ANY other inner threat, I'd disregard personal danger.

But I may be now kinda inadequate, I've read several distopian novels at once recently.

[Loud Whispers]

Got it. You can all just adopt American then, that way nobody is being favored.

I'd rather eat burgers D:<

[Frumple]

Everybody needs some things they'd gladly die for, don't you agree?

Nah, not really. If the intent is to do something of worth -- to benefit, change, or maintain something -- you are much better served living than dying. 'Tis a terrible waste to die for something. Better to live for it.

[Guardian G.I.]

In my opinion, eventually Ukraine will break up, the question is when will it happen and how peaceful will the breakup be.

Spoiler: Potentially inaccurate theories here, beware! (click to show/hide)

If Ukraine joins the EU, sooner or later it'll encounter the same economic problems that plague other Eastern European EU member states, like high unemployment caused by closure of 'ineffective' factories. If it happens, Western Ukrainians will probably just shrug it off and go seeking jobs in Poland or Germany, but the staunchly pro-Russian Southeast Ukraine with its industrial centres will be hit hard, resulting in social unrest and rapid rise of separatist sentiment among the Russian population. And if the Ukrainian government decides to keep the Southeast from seceding by force, it'll definitely lead to insurgency and civil war.

If Ukraine joins the Customs Union and (eventually) the Eurasian Union, it won't have to deal with above-mentioned (possible) economic problems. However, Western Ukrainians won't be glad to see their Eurointegration dreams ruined like that. Such a course of events will surely lead to unrest, insurgency and probably even civil war.

The main thing is how the Western countries and Russia will react to Ukraine breaking up. If violence flares up in the Southeast, Russia will definitely support the separatists. Russia may decide to move its troops to Crimea under the pretext of protecting the Baltic Sea Fleet (provided that Putin has the balls to do that) or may even move troops directly to Southeast Ukraine under the pretext of protecting Russian citizens (provided that Putin's balls are made of steel). Once it happens, USA and EU will surely regard that act as an unprovoked Russian aggression against Ukraine, which will lead either to another brief local war like the 2008 War in South Ossetia (in the best case scenario) or World War III (in the worst case scenario).

If violence flares up in the Western Ukraine, Western countries will support the Ukrainian nationalists - the support can range from anti-Russian propaganda campaign in the Western media and economic sanctions to covert weapon shipments for anti-Russian insurgents. In the worst case scenario, USA and NATO may decide to go to war with Russia over Ukraine, resulting in World War III.

[Dutchling]

Yeah, why would anyone wage a world war over the Ukraine o.o?