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[Helgoland]

Everybody needs some things they'd gladly die for, don't you agree?

Nah, not really. If the intent is to do something of worth -- to benefit, change, or maintain something -- you are much better served living than dying. 'Tis a terrible waste to die for something. Better to live for it.

Die if it need be, of course. When given the option of sacrificing themselves to save their children, what percentage of parents do you think would do it? It's the same with political issues. Don't become a martyr to become a martyr, but be prepared for the possibility.

I guess this whole war-readiness comes from being sick with compromise and bad solutions - wipe the slate clean! The blood we can wash off later.

I'd rather live in a police state than in democracy, if it guarantees safety from any inner or outer threats.

You see. Domesticated pig have much safer and more comfortable life than a wild one but....

Никто не даст нам избавленья:
Ни бог, ни царь и не герой!
Добьёмся мы освобожденья
Своею собственной рукой.
Чтоб свергнуть гнёт рукой умелой,
Отвоевать своё добро, —
Вздувайте горн и куйте смело,
Пока железо горячо!

Damn ninjas.. It's a question of principle, Dutchling! The worst wars are alway fought over the worst places.

[Max White]

Turkey hasn't split, Egypt didn't split, the UK has yet to split and most spectacularly of all the USA hasn't split, so there is strong precedent that Ukraine will stay together, but we will see...

[Guardian G.I.]

Yeah, why would anyone wage a world war over the Ukraine o.o?

Hotheads in the American, EU and Russian governments failing to stop escalating the situation, perhaps?

Turkey hasn't split, Egypt didn't split, the UK has yet to split and most spectacularly of all the USA hasn't split, so there is strong precedent that Ukraine will stay together, but we will see...

The problem is that unlike those countries you have mentioned, two conflicting regions of Ukraine can't stand each other and want Ukraine to go in radically different political directions.

[Comrade P.]

Yeah, why would anyone wage a world war over the Ukraine o.o?

And why an assassination of Austrio-Hungarian archduke emerged to World War? The answer is: AMBITIONS!

According to Guardian's theory, it's time to get supplied by canned food and start digging down in bunkers.

[Jopax]

I don't think most of the world is willing to fuck itself over Ukraine that much G.I.
So the worst case scenario would be SO all over again, with lots of big frowns but nobody actually willing to do anything about it since it's just not worth it.

E: Ninjas, damn me and my constant multitasking!

[Frumple]

The blood we can wash off later.

Has that... ever actually worked? Last I checked, we're (humans as a whole) still doing stupid shit largely because of crap that happened back in WWI (just as an example). Blood takes a long time to wash off. Usually a lot longer than those that want to spill it realize

[Dutchling]

Yeah, why would anyone wage a world war over the Ukraine o.o?

And why an assassination of Austrio-Hungarian archduke emerged to World War? The answer is: AMBITIONS!

Preeeety sure it was the heir that got killed. And that war was going to happen regardless, which is not something you can say right now.

[Helgoland]

Frumple: Seen the king of France lately? To put at a faux-poetic way: The wheel of progress is greased with blood.
And for anyone who wants to point out that blood makes for horrible grease: Exactly.

And IIRC it was the Archduke Franz Ferdinand, the heir to the throne. You're both right.

[Jopax]

And to further discuss the whole WW3 over Ukraine thing. I don't think that it's likey mostly because the major powers of the world aren't the same as they were a hundred years ago. Large powers don't really go to war for ideological reasons anymore, no matter how hard they might try and make everyone believe that they do. And Ukraine isn't really important enough strategically nor politically (no offense to the Ukranian folks) to warrant a shitstorm that would be caused by a NATO-Russia conflict.

[Dutchling]

And IIRC it was the Archduke Franz Ferdinand, the heir to the throne. You're both right.

>.>
<.<
>.>

I seriously hate every noble with a title that is not the head of (a) state.

[Guardian G.I.]

Yeah, why would anyone wage a world war over the Ukraine o.o?

And why an assassination of Austrio-Hungarian archduke emerged to World War? The answer is: AMBITIONS!

According to Guardian's theory, it's time to get supplied by canned food and start digging down in bunkers.

Well, war will occur if things get really, really shitty.
Maybe there won't be World War III, maybe there won't be any armed conflict at all, maybe Ukraine can miraculously manage to join EU without encountering problems like losing most of its industrial sector (a feat that Baltic states and former Warsaw Pact states couldn't achieve) or join the Customs Union without pissing off Galicia and Volhynia (extremely unlikely)... Anything can happen.

I'm sure that if war begins in Ukraine, Belarus will have to deal with refugees trying to get in - we're close and relatively friendly to Ukraine and Ukrainians. My hometown is located close to Polish and Ukrainian borders, so I'll get to see a lot of Western Ukrainians or, if shit hits the fan, invading NATO troops in the streets.

[Descan]

Yeah, why would anyone wage a world war over the Ukraine o.o?

Or Serbia, even?

[Dutchling]

Yeah, why would anyone wage a world war over the Ukraine o.o?

Or Serbia, even?

That was was going to happen regardless of even the existence of Serbia...

[Ukrainian Ranger]

If Ukraine joins the EU, sooner or later it'll encounter the same economic problems that plague other Eastern European EU member states, like high unemployment caused by closure of 'ineffective' factories. If it happens, Western Ukrainians will probably just shrug it off and go seeking jobs in Poland or Germany, but the staunchly pro-Russian Southeast Ukraine with its industrial centres will be hit hard, resulting in social unrest and rapid rise of separatist sentiment among the Russian population. And if the Ukrainian government decides to keep the Southeast from seceding by force, it'll definitely lead to insurgency and civil war.

Nonsense. You know why? One needs IDEA to fight for. Fighting for not being a cattle is a one thing, Fighting because "we think that with Russia our economic state will be better" is absolutely another. People who are agreeing to live under Yanukovich will agree to live under any government
Besides any such insurgency is impossible without active Russian support... Messing with EU member in that way would be a bad, bad idea for Russia. I hope you understand why?


Also, Eastern Ukrainian youth is quite pro-EU, they may dislike Ukrainian idea, but they want western standards  of life. And standards of life here are not money, but damned rights.   
I have one good friend from Donetsk with position - let's split and go in EU as two different friendly countries.
And no one said that we can't go Belgium... It was said that they will split right after the country was formed but they are not in rush


Oh, and your economic theories are so ridiculous, but I don't want to argue about mighty Belorussian economics and crisis in Poland again

[Dutchling]

Live stream of Ukranian shizzle, presumably in Kiev.