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[XXSockXX]

what happens if a bank simply says 'No more debts guys! I annulled all the money you owe me!' to the economy? does it increase, does it lower?

You mean when a state goes bankrupt? All debts are annulled or get repaid only partially, that is usually negotiated with the investors (mostly foreign banks and financiers). The state then issues a new currency and everybody has to start from scratch (savings are usually lost). That happens all the time, most recently in Argentina a few years ago. It's pretty chaotic and bad for the economy, but it can recover in the long run, as the debts are gone.
If Greece wanted to try that they would have to leave the Euro though, not everybody thinks that's a good idea because a Euro-country going bankrupt would lower market confidence in the Euro as a whole.

[Another]

Lending money with interest creates more debt down the road but if the economy grows and the average rate of growth is approximately equal to the average interest rates - it can go on indefinitely without problems. Infinitely growing economy is a common important assumption most economists use. In some sense the essence of money is debt. (Negative debt from the mathematical point.)

Bankrupt states by the way don't usually issue a new currency, but continue using the old one which may had plummeted 2 to 100 times in value at the time of formal announcement or around it.

[XXSockXX]

Bankrupt states by the way don't usually issue a new currency, but continue using the old one which may had plummeted 2 to 100 times in value at the time of formal announcement or around it.

Right. I sort of wrote that with the Eurozone in mind, where a country would have to leave the Euro in case of bankruptcy.

[10ebbor10]

Greece has been bankrupt already. They defaulted on several debts in 2012, with losses of up to 50%

[XXSockXX]

Well, but it's not really bankrupt as long as the EU and the IWF are backing it financially. Partial defaults are negotiated to avoid bankruptcy.

[DWC]

This Snowden guy hasn't really revealed anything people didn't already know. He is really playing the PR game though, I'm guessing he wants to write a book so he can retire when he gets out of prison? He tattled on some diplomats being diplomats and reminded people what the PATRIOT act is, what's the big deal?

If you think most people knew about this stuff... you might be surprised. The extent, the purpose, even the idea of it was pretty foreign to many people. Not everyone is tuned in all the time. And even the many who heard the rumours often assumed they were conspiracy theories. It was a kind of open secret to those in the know, but it's a mistake to assume the general population is always in the know, and he brought out hard evidence along with the accusation.

Also, uh... he HASN'T tattled on any diplomats. He tattled TO diplomats that they were being illegally spied upon by their host countries, and since one would assume they thought they had managed to secure their communications I would imagine that is kind of a big deal. (Though not the fact the other guys might be trying)

And since the guy who wrote the Patriot act says what is is being done goes WAY, WAY beyond what the Patriot act allows, it's seems to be a bit more than a reminder.

I don't see how you /can't/ see what the big deal is.

The PATRIOT Act does give legal justification for what the NSA has been doing. They've repealed a lot of what was in in PATRIOT Act (It's an acronym) because it's unconstitutional, what is left over is still law, regardless if it is being implemented as intended or not by the morons who wrote this abomination in the first place. This NSA program is aimed at 'defeating terrorism' and they are acting within the limitations of the law. They are permitted to collect data and spy on foreigners and always have been, it's never been illegal for the gov't to spy on foreigners. They must act within the constants of the law. Secrecy is not illegal. Collecting data is not illegal. How they use the data is what is important.

Yes, they might collect data and store it, how they use it is another question. The PATRIOT Act says it's legal authority only extends to manners pertaining to terrorism and terrorism accessories. They can monitor your calls all day long, but cannot use this against you if it does not pertain to terrorism. You can be talking bluntly about laws you've broken, but it's ignored and archived until the day they can bring a terrorism charge against you and destroyed within 5 years if they can't figure you for a terrorist.

Yeah, it's sketchy as fuck, right? Who can trust them? Keep in mind, the most basic and primary function of the government is to provide security for it's constituents. So terrorism is the job of the gov't.

How would it play out if they'd had tabs on some foreigner who talked for 4 years non-stop about a terrorist plot, but the gov't deleted the evidence on legal grounds and this individual carried this plot out and killed a lot of people. Everybody would be livid that the gov't was inept, dysfunctional, not doing their job. Well, Post-9/11 they are going to do their job, even if it means secrecy and abusing the law and doing dodgy shit.

The Supreme Court decides if a law is constitutional or not, plenty of provisions in the PATRIOT Act have been declared unconstitutional and repealed, but apparently, the left-overs are still enough to legally justify the government spying on you.

But! Nobody will read it, nobody cares and it will only come into effect if you are put on trial for terrorism. So...

[10ebbor10]

It might be legal in the US, but it certainly isn't in other nation, and certainly shouldn't be.

[Loud Whispers]

I totally called it. The reactionary hatred in this country has now led to this! Isn't it just wonderful.
I read up on their manifesto here, and there is little I find for me to argue with except for the reformation of the BBC, as I think it's already quite all right and impartial. Their party seeks to preserve British culture by promoting it instead of attacking others, barring of course the abolishment of extremist faith schools. Why not simply abolish them all?
The parts on education are especially interesting, at least for me. Because alongside their defence aims, while it all sounds absolutely lovely how on Earth would they afford to pay for all of it?

Develop the ‘Troops to Teachers’ programme for former members of the armed forces.

My most terrifying teacher was a war vet .-.

*EDIT
Oh wait, they just sunk it for me.

Hold a national referendum on the restoration of capital punishment for murder and terrorism.

Scrap the Human Rights Act, replacing it with legislation that enables us to protect British citizens from foreign criminals and terrorists.

U avin a laff m8

Oppose attempts by government and business to clamp down on Internet freedoms via ‘anti-piracy’ laws. Freedom to share is essential if Internet culture is to be creative, dynamic and exciting.

Oh, now that's a hard one. Shame there is no 100% sane party.

[kingfisher1112]

I totally called it. The reactionary hatred in this country has now led to this! Isn't it just wonderful.
I read up on their manifesto here, and there is little I find for me to argue with except for the reformation of the BBC, as I think it's already quite all right and impartial. Their party seeks to preserve British culture by promoting it instead of attacking others, barring of course the abolishment of extremist faith schools. Why not simply abolish them all?
The parts on education are especially interesting, at least for me. Because alongside their defence aims, while it all sounds absolutely lovely how on Earth would they afford to pay for all of it?

Develop the ‘Troops to Teachers’ programme for former members of the armed forces.

My most terrifying teacher was a war vet .-.

*EDIT
Oh wait, they just sunk it for me.

Hold a national referendum on the restoration of capital punishment for murder and terrorism.

Scrap the Human Rights Act, replacing it with legislation that enables us to protect British citizens from foreign criminals and terrorists.

U avin a laff m8

Oppose attempts by government and business to clamp down on Internet freedoms via ‘anti-piracy’ laws. Freedom to share is essential if Internet culture is to be creative, dynamic and exciting.

Oh, now that's a hard one. Shame there is no 100% sane party.

Sounds like these guys are just what the UK needs. Shame that likely they'll go the way of every democracy ever and get 0.000000001% of the vote.

[XXSockXX]

The parts on education are especially interesting, at least for me. Because alongside their defence aims, while it all sounds absolutely lovely how on Earth would they afford to pay for all of it?

The great thing about being a small populist party is that you can promise pretty much everything without having to worry about actually doing it and having to pay for it. We have something like that on the left side of the political spectrum.
The german site that subtitled the thing has somewhat...questionable political affiliations btw.

[Loud Whispers]

The german site that subtitled the thing has somewhat...questionable political affiliations btw.

I don't understand German, so I don't really care much at all.

The great thing about being a small populist party is that you can promise pretty much everything without having to worry about actually doing it and having to pay for it.

The big three [and I guess UKIP too if they get up there] tend to do the same. Just rack it up with debt.
So. Much. Debt.

Sounds like these guys are just what the UK needs. Shame that likely they'll go the way of every democracy ever and get 0.000000001% of the vote.

I don't think it's Goldilocks just yet, they've really got some shit to sort out first.


____________________________
EDIT*
Stuff is actually happening in Europe.

[Scoops Novel]

Do you think we'll see many emerging new parties after the next election, Loud Whispers?

[Leafsnail]

01: British Culture
This category is openly xenophobic and terrible.  It starts off badly in the preamble:

With the influx came large numbers of foreign criminals; rapists, pimps, murderers, armed robbers, pickpockets, people traffickers, drug dealers, fraudsters and paedophile gangs were all welcomed by our politicians to come and prey upon us.

FOREIGNERS CAUSE ALL CRIME

And the policies themselves are bad too.  After a few standard BNP type ones we get

Promote morality, marriage, the family, the community and the nation state.

("Promoting marriage" is code for "Bashing gays", in case you didn't know)

Instil a sense of national pride by teaching children of all backgrounds history centred upon Britain’s outstanding achievements in science, technology, art, literature, sport, exploration and every other area of civilisation. Emphasise our contribution to the world and our struggle to remain a free and independent people. Discard the history books which describe our culture and civilisation as one of genocide and oppression.

Whitewash our nation's history.  This one actually seems really concerning to me, as with the reform of the history syllabus it might actually happen.  We're likely to get some "China attacked first" type shit out of it.

Overhaul university governance to ensure greater public accountability (including control over professorial appointments), curtailing leftist, anti-British bias.

Kick out academics we don't like.

Reform the BBC to end its left-wing multicultural bias.

Kick out broadcasters we don't like.

Ban the Islamic call to prayer and Islamic worship in public institutions and outdoor spaces.


Halt the building of additional mosques and impose strict planning controls on other non-traditional religious institutions and buildings.


Ban the burka.

Openly racist.  And how is Islam a "non-traditional" religious institution?  And what the heck even qualifies as a non-traditional religious institution?  Are we going to be cracking down on random denominations of Christianity or what?

Demand that only English be spoken in public institutions and end public funding of translation services. Ensure that English is the first language taught in schools.

Standard populist bullshit.  How are we going to attract tourists and overseas investment if we're openly hostile to foreign languages?

Celebrate only Christian and British festivals in public institutions; make the patron saints’ days in England, Scotland and Wales bank holidays.

I wouldn't mind additional bank holidays, particularly one celebrating a famous Palestinian hero.  Seems to contradict the first sentence though.

02: Defence
This part doesn't really say much, other than standard anti-Europe stuff.  I did enjoy reading

Streamline MOD bureaucracy.

Even after they'd promised to set up several large bureaucratic institutions, though.  Also protectionism for some weird reason.

03: Education and Training
It's mostly just what the Tories are proposing, with a bit of pointless Muslim bashing and Nazi-esque "get rid of the academics we don't like" added in for good measure.

04: Energy
It's not really saying too much.  I'd note it doesn't make a single mention of global warming or climate change though, so it's kindof ignoring the two main issues.  And again blaming all our problems on immigrants.

07: Freedom and Democracy
This section is fucking rich.  They want to safeguard freedom in the UK, while at the same time getting rid of the only thing that gives accused criminals any rights at all.  Their anti-surveillence stuff is clearly an example of a stopped clock being right once a day, considering they clearly want to stamp hard on the freedom of people to practice Islam, and the freedom of academics to be left-wing.

08: Health and Welfare
Exactly what the conservatives wanted, but worse.

I don't have the energy to go through any more but it looks totally shit.  It's basically the BNP only worse and I really hope no-one is taken in by it.

[Dutchling]

"Instil a sense of national pride"? How vain can a man be -.-'

[kingfisher1112]

Leafsnail, you are wrong.

With the influx came large numbers of foreign criminals; rapists, pimps, murderers, armed robbers, pickpockets, people traffickers, drug dealers, fraudsters and paedophile gangs were all welcomed by our politicians to come and prey upon us.
FOREIGNERS CAUSE ALL CRIME

No, it doesn't say that. It just says that criminals are not properly screened, and are openly encouraged in. Also it says how immigrants just clump together and become xenophobic to any other culture, which, oh, you ignored.

Promote morality, marriage, the family, the community and the nation state.
("Promoting marriage" is code for "Bashing gays", in case you didn't know)

( Promoting Marriage is code for " Promoting Marriage, in case you didn't know)

Instil a sense of national pride by teaching children of all backgrounds history centred upon Britain’s outstanding achievements in science, technology, art, literature, sport, exploration and every other area of civilisation. Emphasise our contribution to the world and our struggle to remain a free and independent people. Discard the history books which describe our culture and civilisation as one of genocide and oppression.
Whitewash our nation's history.  This one actually seems really concerning to me, as with the reform of the history syllabus it might actually happen.  We're likely to get some "China attacked first" type shit out of it.

So making it out like it's the worst culture ever and that Britain did nothing great ever is a good thing? Degrading a sense of national pride and degrading your very cultural image is a good thing?

Overhaul university governance to ensure greater public accountability (including control over professorial appointments), curtailing leftist, anti-British bias.
Kick out academics we don't like.

Remove bias in educational positions we don't like.

Reform the BBC to end its left-wing multicultural bias.
Kick out broadcasters we don't like.

Maintain a neutral unbiased broadcast hub.

Ban the Islamic call to prayer and Islamic worship in public institutions and outdoor spaces.


Halt the building of additional mosques and impose strict planning controls on other non-traditional religious institutions and buildings.


Ban the burka.
Openly racist.  And how is Islam a "non-traditional" religious institution?  And what the heck even qualifies as a non-traditional religious institution?  Are we going to be cracking down on random denominations of Christianity or what?

Islam is a race now.
Burka has applications for illegal activity, I.e, here.
How many Christian calls to prayer are there in public places? It's alienating to be suddenly left out.

Demand that only English be spoken in public institutions and end public funding of translation services. Ensure that English is the first language taught in schools.
Standard populist bullshit.  How are we going to attract tourists and overseas investment if we're openly hostile to foreign languages?

It's called a phrase book. Unless you already know the language, then how do you communicate when you are on holiday?

You just shrilly called racist and nazi a few times. What point does that have?