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[Ukrainian Ranger]

One more thing regarding Crimean Tatars - Their pockets will be hit hard. Problem here  is that most Tatars here are busy either in tourism or agriculture. Both spheres got a hefty hit...

Guys that get money from budget (medics\teachers\police officers and so on) will benefit from all that Russian oil money will get larger salaries but there are few Tatars among them.

[Helgoland]

Helgoland: Ok, I think we got confused between European and American conservatism. You're more of an authoritarian liberal. :p

Yeah, that fits pretty well - but it's still the European definition of liberal. Seeing how we're in te Euro politics thread, I think it's reasonable to assumme the European meaning to be the default.
So what's your label, anyway?

[Sheb]

Centrist green would be the best fit I guess. I'm not a card-carrying Green, but that's only because my wallet is downstairs.  But I'm well to the right of my party on economic matter (I believe in cylically-adjusted balanced budget, and I don't mind forcing unemployed people to look for a job), with widly leftist strain (Like supporting a universal basic income). I'm also pro-nuclear, because we won't be able to decarbonize without it. So maybe pragmatic green?

[smjjames]

Helgoland: Ok, I think we got confused between European and American conservatism. You're more of an authoritarian liberal. :p

Yeah, that fits pretty well - but it's still the European definition of liberal. Seeing how we're in te Euro politics thread, I think it's reasonable to assumme the European meaning to be the default.
So what's your label, anyway?

My view of conservatives are bible thumpers in general. Honestly though, the terms get thrown around so much that I don't completely understand the differences between the two. Other than that in general, republicans are conservative and democrats are liberal. And that conservatives don't want change and liberals are for change/progress.

Basically it's so muddled around here that I don't even think of myself as conservative or liberal.

As I understand it, the US center is more in the right section of the European spectrum. I think. Or center right.

My label would be independent with democratic and green leanings.

[Loud Whispers]

Filthy authoritarians, liberty is the only way ahead :|


Also in the UK we're trying to ban injury again, by banning lorries after headlines were dominated by cyclists dying in collisions practically on a daily basis.

[Sergarr]

Filthy authoritarians, liberty is the only way ahead :|


Also in the UK we're trying to ban injury again, by banning lorries after headlines were dominated by cyclists dying in collisions practically on a daily basis.

But they are "more of an authoritarian liberal"-s, hehehe.

[Guardian G.I.]

Shootout between Ukrainian and pro-Russian forces near Slavyansk, as shot by a resident from a rooftop, early morning of the 19th of May.

[notquitethere]

What are the fireworks at 1:20?

[Sergarr]

I'd guess these are some sort of flares.

[Comrade P.]

Or fireworks used as flares.

[Pnx]

Best guess, vehicle countermeasure flares, though you can see a bit of light and smoke just before they go off, which suggests maybe it was a vehicle cooking off.

[smjjames]

Putin might actually be withdrawing troops from the border. I say might with a boulder sized grain of salt and skeptism because Putin has lied and pulled fakeouts before. Also, I don't know how much time elapsed between Putin ordering that and everybody else saying 'nope, no sign of a pullout', but such a huge force probably takes time to get started moving out and then there's chain of command. Even so, our spysats could certainly see them beginning to pack up and Putin never actually said of a specific timeline, just 'end of spring exercises'.

I posted two Russian sources and two Western sources to balance it out.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBREA4I04I20140519?irpc=932

http://rt.com/news/159888-putin-troops-back-bases/

http://www.therakyatpost.com/world/2014/05/19/putin-orders-troops-near-ukraine-back-bases/ (somewhat more than RT)

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/19/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/

[Owlbread]

Spoiler: Whataboutery, putting words in our mouths that we never said, all that good stuff (click to show/hide)

Relevant.
Why did Russia conquer Crimea, and later on the Caucausus? Raids on Russian lands was the sole reason. Any other state of that era would probably do the same.
For some reason, Western media have always omitted this chapter of history of Crimean Tatars when speaking about history of Crimea - thus it appears that peace-loving Crimean Tatars were living on the Crimean peninsula not bothering anyone until suddenly Russians came and crushed their peace-loving state in 1774.

Sheb has answered this eloquently and I don't need to attack it.

Spoiler: Lengthy Crimea-related post in reply to Loud Whispers (click to show/hide)

1. Advocated giving exclusive voting rights to tatars, which makes as much sense as giving exclusive voting rights to native americans in north america.

Again, you're obviously not reading what I'm saying, just superficially skimming through it.

Ukrainian Ranger said that voting rights in Crimea should only be given to people who speak Crimean Tatar. That would mean Russians would have to learn the language of the country they've settled in in order to vote. Considering a fair number of people in the UK, USA, France and Russia would feel uncomfortable if immigrants who could not speak English (or French and Russian respectively) were able to vote, I don't think that's as racist/unreasonable an expectation as it may seem.

That said, I then rejected it by stating that I think that voting rights should always be given to everyone living within a political unit, including prisoners. If you had actually read what I had to say you would have known that.

There were several further posts along these lines - "But what about OUR CRIMES" or "What about THAT country's crimes? Don't hear much about them!" - but I will just answer them now generally.

I know that Russians/Japanese/Germans/French/English/Scots/Spaniards etc are not responsible for the actions of their ancestors. I have never claimed this. My problem is and always has been with people who pretend those crimes never happened, and ignore the crimes that are going on today. I argue with people from the countries you've already mentioned on a very regular basis. The only reason why I am banging on about Crimea right now is because it is topical.

[Descan]

Centrist green would be the best fit I guess. I'm not a card-carrying Green, but that's only because my wallet is downstairs.  But I'm well to the right of my party on economic matter (I believe in cylically-adjusted balanced budget, and I don't mind forcing unemployed people to look for a job), with widly leftist strain (Like supporting a universal basic income). I'm also pro-nuclear, because we won't be able to decarbonize without it. So maybe pragmatic green?

... Wait, how can you "force unemployed people to look for a job" with a UBI?

[LordSlowpoke]

making ubi a joke that keeps people on a "hair's width from starving" level?