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[TD1]

Yes, the Americans get involved too. Fact is, the Clintons coming over really did nothing but rile protestants, and the diplomats that came over may reason, but for many reason doesn't work. Still, no point in not trying...granted, I'd rather the Clintons would just...not come 

[RedKing]

Treat it like Korea does, I think - pick and choose when you want to be known as "Korea" or "South/North Korea" as and when it suits you.

Northern Ireland will hereafter be referred to as "Best Ireland". 

[Owlbread]

Spoiler: Yet more long posts (click to show/hide)

What are the benefits?

I think any country that is independent will become more responsible for itself, therefore with greater responsibility the current lot of politicians in the North would be forced to make the changes that are needed.

We make 9 billion, as you rightly pointed out.

Actually I said that you are running a deficit of £9 billion. That is a serious problem.

This is with specialisation withing the airplane industry and cloth. Chicken to a lesser extent, too, as with alcohol (Bushmills Distillery).

More must be done. Northern Ireland must become more specialised, perhaps there is a field of research you could master in combination with it.

However, Britain gives us 18 billion. This is with specialisation.

The 18 billion is necessary because Northern Ireland does not make enough money to sustain itself currently. The North should work towards self reliance as much as possible.

So, should we become independent, we would crash and burn. Alliance is essential, either with Britain or Ireland;

I agree with this - but does alliance necessarily require political union? Is it not possible to experiment with this? As I said, I think for the North to be successful it needs to be as close to the UK and the Republic as possible, equally; does that mean you need to share the same seat at the UN as the British?

Neither, may I add, particularly want us, especially Britain. We have ceased to be of industrial relevance, and Ireland is in enough bother. We are a drain.

This is why the North needs to take a long, hard look at itself. Changes need to come and you can't just rely on the UK as you are currently.

Besides this, why advocate independence where next to no one seems to want it?

Why do I advocate independence for so many regions when few people want it?

Your own separatist ideals simply do not work with Northern Ireland. There is physical violence in Northern Ireland. No sooner is something of importance made, than it is blown up...this deflects trade and investment. Were we improve on this, violence would have to die down..as it has been, slowly. Further partition from Ireland, accompanied by partition from Britain? Do you realise how flammable that would be?

Of course I am aware of how flammable that would be. Any political change in the North is flammable - even a general election could lead to police activity. The North needs to get past this though in order to develop properly and truly join the modern world. But on the subject of "further partition from Ireland" - the North is about as separate as it can get right now. Independence would most likely lead to greater integration with the South.

Northern Ireland will hereafter be referred to as "Best Ireland". 

I'm not sure if the Loyalist community will be very happy with that.

[TD1]

Replies are gonna come in order of your statements.



Yes, I misworded my end, I suppose. We make 9 billion. Great Britain supplies 18 billion. Ergo, there is a deficit of 9 billion.

The politicians here would fall apart without external glue and convention holding them together, it's that volatile. The politicians are almost infantile in their squabblings, and I have next to no respect for them.

What can be done is being done. It's in the best interests of Great Britain for it to be so. Though, Queens University specialises in poetry, that isn't quite what you mean. We specialise in CAD, in particular for the planes, and agriculture. CAD leads in to many other things, such as engineering, etc.

That highlighting of 18 billion was meant to go towards the point that we make nine billion. Great Britain loses 9 billion in this deal. Makes self reliance improbable, no?

We are already largely self governing, why should we care. We co-operate with Ireland on some policies, Great Britain on others.

I'm all for Northern Ireland taking a long look at itself. Also, don't call it the north-That's seen as a republican thing to say It implies a lack of separation, i.e. the North of Ireland instead of Northern Ireland. Little difference, but the little things matter.

It's not as separate as it can get. As said earlier, the Republic has a say in policies, and beyond that are entitled to make suggestions. A split with everyone would see a break down of the Good Friday Agreement. And, if it did lead to further integration, it would be opposed twenty times more vehemently by Protestants, with agnostic wee me in the middle of them.

Really, there's little benefit and many downsides. We essentially govern ourselves. We have a relation with Ireland that, whilst being strained, is still there. We get financial, military and political backing. (not to mention the NHS)

A separate country? Why in blazes

[RedKing]

Spoiler: Yet more long posts (click to show/hide)

What are the benefits?

I think any country that is independent will become more responsible for itself, therefore with greater responsibility the current lot of politicians in the North would be forced to make the changes that are needed.

We make 9 billion, as you rightly pointed out.

Actually I said that you are running a deficit of £9 billion. That is a serious problem.

This is with specialisation withing the airplane industry and cloth. Chicken to a lesser extent, too, as with alcohol (Bushmills Distillery).

More must be done. Northern Ireland must become more specialised, perhaps there is a field of research you could master in combination with it.

However, Britain gives us 18 billion. This is with specialisation.

The 18 billion is necessary because Northern Ireland does not make enough money to sustain itself currently. The North should work towards self reliance as much as possible.

So, should we become independent, we would crash and burn. Alliance is essential, either with Britain or Ireland;

I agree with this - but does alliance necessarily require political union? Is it not possible to experiment with this? As I said, I think for the North to be successful it needs to be as close to the UK and the Republic as possible, equally; does that mean you need to share the same seat at the UN as the British?

Neither, may I add, particularly want us, especially Britain. We have ceased to be of industrial relevance, and Ireland is in enough bother. We are a drain.

This is why the North needs to take a long, hard look at itself. Changes need to come and you can't just rely on the UK as you are currently.

Besides this, why advocate independence where next to no one seems to want it?

Why do I advocate independence for so many regions when few people want it?

Your own separatist ideals simply do not work with Northern Ireland. There is physical violence in Northern Ireland. No sooner is something of importance made, than it is blown up...this deflects trade and investment. Were we improve on this, violence would have to die down..as it has been, slowly. Further partition from Ireland, accompanied by partition from Britain? Do you realise how flammable that would be?

Of course I am aware of how flammable that would be. Any political change in the North is flammable - even a general election could lead to police activity. The North needs to get past this though in order to develop properly and truly join the modern world. But on the subject of "further partition from Ireland" - the North is about as separate as it can get right now. Independence would most likely lead to greater integration with the South.

Northern Ireland will hereafter be referred to as "Best Ireland". 

I'm not sure if the Loyalist community will be very happy with that.

Would they be mollified by a photoshop of Peter Robinson as Kim Jong Un?

(sadly, the only closest thing I can find is this:)

Spoiler: Belfast Style! (click to show/hide)

At least it's Korean.

[TD1]

Spoiler: Yet more long posts (click to show/hide)

What are the benefits?

I think any country that is independent will become more responsible for itself, therefore with greater responsibility the current lot of politicians in the North would be forced to make the changes that are needed.

We make 9 billion, as you rightly pointed out.

Actually I said that you are running a deficit of £9 billion. That is a serious problem.

This is with specialisation withing the airplane industry and cloth. Chicken to a lesser extent, too, as with alcohol (Bushmills Distillery).

More must be done. Northern Ireland must become more specialised, perhaps there is a field of research you could master in combination with it.

However, Britain gives us 18 billion. This is with specialisation.

The 18 billion is necessary because Northern Ireland does not make enough money to sustain itself currently. The North should work towards self reliance as much as possible.

So, should we become independent, we would crash and burn. Alliance is essential, either with Britain or Ireland;

I agree with this - but does alliance necessarily require political union? Is it not possible to experiment with this? As I said, I think for the North to be successful it needs to be as close to the UK and the Republic as possible, equally; does that mean you need to share the same seat at the UN as the British?

Neither, may I add, particularly want us, especially Britain. We have ceased to be of industrial relevance, and Ireland is in enough bother. We are a drain.

This is why the North needs to take a long, hard look at itself. Changes need to come and you can't just rely on the UK as you are currently.

Besides this, why advocate independence where next to no one seems to want it?

Why do I advocate independence for so many regions when few people want it?

Your own separatist ideals simply do not work with Northern Ireland. There is physical violence in Northern Ireland. No sooner is something of importance made, than it is blown up...this deflects trade and investment. Were we improve on this, violence would have to die down..as it has been, slowly. Further partition from Ireland, accompanied by partition from Britain? Do you realise how flammable that would be?

Of course I am aware of how flammable that would be. Any political change in the North is flammable - even a general election could lead to police activity. The North needs to get past this though in order to develop properly and truly join the modern world. But on the subject of "further partition from Ireland" - the North is about as separate as it can get right now. Independence would most likely lead to greater integration with the South.

Northern Ireland will hereafter be referred to as "Best Ireland". 

I'm not sure if the Loyalist community will be very happy with that.

Would they be mollified by a photoshop of Peter Robinson as Kim Jong Un?

(sadly, the only closest thing I can find is this:)

Spoiler: Belfast Style! (click to show/hide)

At least it's Korean.

No. Though that man is a prat.

[Descan]

This might have come up before, but I'm wondering why you seem so against Scotland leaving the Union, when they're basically in the same situation as the Irish and Northern Irish, just on the other side of the coin. If you don't want Northern Ireland to become a part of the Republic, why then do you turn around and say Scotland should stay a part of the UK? Any arguments that say it would be better for the UK could be easily applied to saying it would be better for the Republic~

[scrdest]

This might have come up before, but I'm wondering why you seem so against Scotland leaving the Union, when they're basically in the same situation as the Irish and Northern Irish, just on the other side of the coin. If you don't want Northern Ireland to become a part of the Republic, why then do you turn around and say Scotland should stay a part of the UK? Any arguments that say it would be better for the UK could be easily applied to saying it would be better for the Republic~

NI is already part of the UK, soooooo...

[TD1]

As I said previously, Owlbread has convinced me that it may be in the best interests of Scotland. Of course, such things as military same shaky to me, but in the long term it may work out. I wait with bated breath. More for tradition's sake, if you must know...I like standing together, as opposed to apart, and it seems so easy to divide and conquer, politically or otherwise.

No. They really wouldn't. Ireland is small. It has a poor economy. It doesn't have that much political weight. Great Britain has ties with America and, whilst Ireland is somehow loved by them, they don't have quite the same connection. To sum, Great Britain is stronger politically, economically, and military wise.

And, for me, there is the added flavour of loyalty to my roots.

Ninja: Also, what scrdest said; why change, anyway.

[Descan]

This might have come up before, but I'm wondering why you seem so against Scotland leaving the Union, when they're basically in the same situation as the Irish and Northern Irish, just on the other side of the coin. If you don't want Northern Ireland to become a part of the Republic, why then do you turn around and say Scotland should stay a part of the UK? Any arguments that say it would be better for the UK could be easily applied to saying it would be better for the Republic~

NI is already part of the UK, soooooo...

That has less than nothing to do with what I asked.

Let me try and rephrase.

Scotland is to England what Northern Ireland is to Ireland. What you do not want to happen to Northern Ireland (joining with a larger, more populace country) has already happened to Scotland. Any arguments against Northern Ireland joining Ireland could be used in regards to Scotland staying a part of the UK.

The only differences is that NI is a part of the UK, butI'm mostly speaking culturally and politically. (As it is fucking obvious that economically it is hugely different) NI is as different from Ireland as Scotland is from England culturally, and NI is fairly similar culturally to the UK (perhaps would be less so if/when Scotland leaves, since so many Northern Irish are Scots-descent) it still works. NI would be leaving a cultural sphere it is related to, to join a cultural sphere it is not, while Scotland is already a part of a cultural sphere it is not related to and would separate away to it's own sphere.

I suppose the size differences are also a factor, but Northern Ireland is actually only a third the size of Ireland population-wise, while Scotland is a tenth of England. So, if the Northern Irish would be subsumed under the Irish identity, than it stands to reason that the Scottish identity would be subsumed even further. The economic differences would probably come into play here, considering that the Scottish are not erased as a culture (though perhaps that would imply that Northern Irish would also not be erased?)

[10ebbor10]

Anyway, I'm not sure that was the point he was making.

As far as I can tell, it's that Northern Ireland is currently better of as part of the UK, than it would be as part of Ireland. Which is probably true, seeing as Ireland isn't in the best financial position at the moment, and Northern Ireland isn't exactly going to help with that.

[TD1]

I think he was trying to exclude economics, for whatever reason. But anyway, the relationship between Scotland and England was violent centuries ago. The relationship between Northern Ireland and Ireland has been violent up to present day.

"While Scotland is a tenth of England." Out of curiosity, do you mean England or the U.K.?

I'm sorry, I can't quite follow your point. I am trying, though.

Could you rephrase, and talk as if to a baby?

[10ebbor10]

[TD1]

Har de har har, ain't you a barrel of laughs? 

[Descan]

*shrug* This is what I get for not filtering my thoughts like I normally do.