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Ted Cruz

7 (6.5%)

Rick Santorum

16 (14.8%)

Michelle Bachmann

13 (12%)

Chris Christie

23 (21.3%)

Rand Paul

49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

But that is sorta my worry too....at the helm, would she decide some American Adventurism was in order? Seems like every president either wants that moment or gets it presented to them at least once in their administration.

Hopefully if the next president decides to fall into 'American Adventurism', it's heading to space.  Like how about making the goal to construct a moon base?

[Baffler]

Senate releases comprehensive report on torture conducted by the CIA. The full report is almost 6000 pages long, but only some 550 have been declassified, as well as a rebuttal published by a group of Republican senate people. This website put their advance copy up for people to read, but they don't have the rebuttal.

Edit: link fixed, typo removed.

[Wolfhunter107]

Fucking brilliant. First it's Saddam's magical disappearing WMDs, and now this. Absolutely Fucking brilliant.

[smjjames]

While the republicans are correct that it would damage our relationship, I think it's for the best because it shows that we can be honest about our mistakes.

Yes it's shameful, but it's a shame that we should let the world know about and that we are shameful about it.

I'm not saying that we expect sympathy or anything.

Fucking brilliant. First it's Saddam's magical disappearing WMDs, and now this. Absolutely Fucking brilliant.

Can't really blame the Bush adminstration too much since even Bush and Cheyney and other top cabinet people were in the dark and the CIA lied to everybody.

No surprise that torture doesn't gain good results, it just makes the victim say what the torturer wants to hear.

[Zangi]

But that is sorta my worry too....at the helm, would she decide some American Adventurism was in order? Seems like every president either wants that moment or gets it presented to them at least once in their administration.

Hopefully if the next president decides to fall into 'American Adventurism', it's heading to space.  Like how about making the goal to construct a moon base?

Only if they find oil/gas or some other awesome unobtanium that does similar or better then oil/gas up there somewhere.  Otherwise, no monies.

[smjjames]

But that is sorta my worry too....at the helm, would she decide some American Adventurism was in order? Seems like every president either wants that moment or gets it presented to them at least once in their administration.

Hopefully if the next president decides to fall into 'American Adventurism', it's heading to space.  Like how about making the goal to construct a moon base?

Only if they find oil/gas or some other awesome unobtanium that does similar or better then oil/gas up there somewhere.  Otherwise, no monies.

That's true for everybody, not just the US. It'd be no easier cost wise for, say, France, as it does us to set up a base there that has a net income.

Newt Gingrich did talk about setting up a moon base, although not sure if he talked about it in a realistic way, we could use some dreamers like that.

[Helgoland]

Can't really blame the Bush adminstration too much since even Bush and Cheyney and other top cabinet people were in the dark and the CIA lied to everybody.

Sauce? Because I kinda thought Bush was indeed responsible for the Iraq war...

[smjjames]

Can't really blame the Bush adminstration too much since even Bush and Cheyney and other top cabinet people were in the dark and the CIA lied to everybody.

Sauce? Because I kinda thought Bush was indeed responsible for the Iraq war...

That's what CNN said, I'll find a proper source though.

Bush and Co. weren't kept completely in the dark, but the CIA hid a lot of stuff from them along with hiding stuff from congress.

Info from BBC:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30401100

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30406735

Some CNN stuff:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/09/politics/top-takeaways-cia-torture-report/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[misko27]

Source? Well, regarding the CIA torture, the New York Times counts as a source.

The New York Times listed 7 key points:

1. The C.I.A.’s interrogation techniques were more brutal and employed more extensively than the agency portrayed.
2. The C.I.A. interrogation program was mismanaged and was not subject to adequate oversight.
3. The C.I.A. misled members of Congress and the White House about the effectiveness and extent of its brutal interrogation techniques.
4. Interrogators in the field who tried to stop the brutal techniques were repeatedly overruled by senior C.I.A. officials.
5. The C.I.A. repeatedly underreported the number of people it detained and subjected to harsh interrogation techniques under the program.
6. At least 26 detainees were wrongfully held and did not meet the government’s standard for detention.
7. The C.I.A. leaked classified information to journalists, exaggerating the success of interrogation methods in an effort to gain public support.

Source of points here. 528 pages were declassified of the 6,000 whole, 524 pages of its executive summary and a rebuttal by Republican members of the committee. Sen. John McCain delivered a condemnation of the CIA's techniques on the senate floor, notable given him being a former torture victim during his time as a POW in Vietnam. The report itself is provided by the New York Times here.

[alway]

Or in a better format, here: http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/study2014/sscistudy1.pdf

If you want the really gruesome stuff, search for 'rehydration.'

I highly suggest reading through at least a few pages of the original, as it thoroughly debunks any question of doubt about it or its conclusions.

After being rendered to CIA custody on July 2004, Janat Gul
was subjected to the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques, including continuous sleep deprivation, facial holds, attention grasps, facial slaps, stress positions, and walling, until he experienced auditory and visual hallucinations. According to a cable, Janat Gul was "not oriented to time or place" and told CIA officers that he saw "his wife and children in the mirror and had heard their voices in the white noise." The questioning of Janat Gul continued, although the CIA ceased using the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques for several days. According to a CIA cable, "[Gul] asked todie, or justbe killed." After continued interrogation sessions with Gul, on August 19, 2004, CIA detention site personnel wrote that the interrogation "team does not believe [Gul] is withholding imminent threat information." On August 21, 2004, a cable from CIA Headquarters stated that Janat Gul "is believed" to possess threat information, and that the "use of enhanced techniques is appropriate in order to obtain that information." On that day, August 21, 2004, CIA interrogators resumed using the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques against Gul. Gul continued not to provide any reporting on the pre-election threat described by the CIA source. On August 25, 2004, CIA interrogators sent a cable to CIA Headquarters stating that Janat Gul "may not possess all that [the CIA] believes him to know." The interrogators added that "many issues linking [Gul] to al-Qaida are derived from single source reporting" (the CIA source). Nonetheless, CIA interrogators continued to question Gul on the pre-election threat.

According to an August 26, 2004, cable, after a 47-hour session of standing sleep deprivation, Janat Gul was returned to his cell, allowed to remove his diaper, given a towel and a meal, and permitted to sleep. In October 2004, the CIA conducted [an interview with] source who had identified Gul as having knowledge of attack planning for the pre-election threat. The CIA source admitted to fabricating the information. Gul was subsequently transferred to a foreign government.
Janat Gul never provided the threat information the CIA originally told the National Security Council that Gul possessed. Nor did the use of the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques against Gul produce the "immediate threat information that could save American lives," which had been the basis for the CIA to seek authorization to use the techniques.

As described elsewhere in this summary, the CIA's justification for employing its enhanced interrogation techniques on Janat Gul—the first detainee to be subjected to the techniques following the May 2004 suspension—changed over time. After having initially cited Gul's knowledge of the pre-election threat, as reported by the CIA's source, the CIA began representing that its enhanced interrogation techniques were required for Gul to deny the existence of the threat, thereby disproving the credibility of the CIA source.

---

However, as early as March 2004, CIA officials internally expressed doubts about the validity of the CIA source's information. On July 2, 2004, the CIA met with National Security Advisor Rice, other National Security Council officials, White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales, as well as the attorney general and the deputy attorney general, to seek authorization to use the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques, specifically on Janat Gul. The CIA represented that CIA "interrogations have saved American lives," that more than half of the CIA detainees would not cooperate until they were interrogated using the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques, and that "unless CIA interrogators can use a full range of enhanced interogation methods, it is unlikely that CIA will be able to obtain current threat information from Gul in a timely manner." Janat Gul was not yet in CIA custody

So that's the first guy they tortured. A man who knew nothing.

[Darvi]

Is rehydration an euphemism for waterboarding?

[alway]

Is rehydration an euphemism for waterboarding?

Nope. The word prefacing that is "Rectal."
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/09/cia-torture-report-worst-findings-waterboard-rectal

CIA operatives subjected at least five detainees to what they called “rectal rehydration and feeding”.

One CIA cable released in the report reveals that detainee Majid Khan was administered by enema his “‘lunch tray’ consisting of hummus, pasta with sauce, nuts and raisins was ‘pureed and rectally infused’”. One CIA officer’s email was in the report quoted as saying “we used the largest Ewal [sic] tube we had”.

Rectal feeding is of limited application in actually keeping a person alive or administering nutrients, since the colon and rectum cannot absorb much besides salt, glucose and a few minerals and vitamins. The CIA administered rectal rehydration to Khalid Sheikh Mohammed “without a determination of medical need” and justified “rectal fluid resuscitation” of Abu Zubaydah because he “partially refus[ed] liquids”. Al-Nashiri was given an enema after a brief hunger strike.

Risks of rectal feeding and rehydration include damage to the rectum and colon, triggering bowels to empty, food rotting inside the recipient’s digestive tract, and an inflamed or prolapsed rectum from carless insertion of the feeding tube. The report found that CIA leadership was notified that rectal exams may have been conducted with “Excessive force”, and that one of the detainees, Mustafa al-Hawsawi, suffered from an anal fissure, chronic hemorrhoids and symptomatic rectal prolapse.

The CIA’s chief of interrogations characterized rectal rehydration as a method of “total control” over detainees, and an unnamed person said the procedure helped to “clear a person’s head”.

Detainees were forced to stand on broken limbs for hours, kept in complete darkness, deprived of sleep for up to 180 hours, sometimes standing, sometimes with their arms shackled above their heads.

Prisoners were subjected to “rectal feeding” without medical necessity. Rectal exams were conducted with “excessive force”. The report highlights one prisoner later diagnosed with anal fissures, chronic hemorrhoids and “symptomatic rectal prolapse”.

The report mentions mock executions, Russian roulette. US agents threatened to slit the throat of a detainee’s mother, sexually abuse another and threatened prisoners’ children. One prisoner died of hypothermia brought on in part by being forced to sit on a bare concrete floor without pants.

[Helgoland]

They shoved their food up their butts? Why?

[Sheb]

Yeah, what the hell?

[olemars]

Can't throw it up again that way. The one independent decision you have left when you're held captive like that is to no eat your food, this is how CIA officers removed even that decision from them. Do it as dehumanizing as possible for good measure.

Most of the people involved in this torture probably thought they were good patriots while doing it, just like members of the secret police in Egypt and other police states think they're doing their duty against enemies of their country when they break out the cattle prods.