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Ted Cruz

7 (6.5%)

Rick Santorum

16 (14.8%)

Michelle Bachmann

13 (12%)

Chris Christie

23 (21.3%)

Rand Paul

49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107

[GavJ]

.50 cal as civilian weapon?

seems legit

The original conception of the 2nd amendment was in the context of dealing with human combatants, not deer. And if you're doing to stop combatants with things like tanks and APCs, a .50 cal anti vehicle rifle is precisely the sort of thing you would need. And unlike something like a nuclear weapon, it doesn't have particularly overpowered capabilities beyond something like a hunting rifle insofar as its ability to commit crime during peace.

I'm neither endorsing nor opposing the concept that civilians should be armed well enough to resist military actions (I don't really know of any data that shows this is more or less likely to lead to revolutions or injustice or whatever, nor can I even really think of what that data might hypothetically be...).

But it's hardly conceptually flat out ridiculous at face value, at least.

[Bauglir]

Very little (if any) legislative change is needed. Like all fully-automatic weapons, Uzi's are already illegal under Federal law (barring an extremely small number of pre-1983 examples) without special (and extremely expensive) permit, and reckless endangerment is already a serious crime. All that really needs to be done is to revoke the establishment's full-auto permit  (not certain if the law allows confiscation of the weapons under permit, as bill of attainder would apply unless special provision was made in the permit law), but it would absolutely prohibit them from allowing any non-permit holder to fire them, and arrest the management staff for reckless endangerment homicide.

Oh. Fair enough - I had, apparently naively, assumed their business was legal. I'll withhold judgment until the law's actually had an opportunity to be enforced, and just expect a surge of people to come to their defense because it's a gun issue, and there is a big chunk of society for whom that means "we need to protect our rights".

[Sergarr]

.50 cal as civilian weapon?

seems legit

The original conception of the 2nd amendment was in the context of dealing with human combatants, not deer. And if you're doing to stop combatants with things like tanks and APCs, a .50 cal anti vehicle rifle is precisely the sort of thing you would need. And unlike something like a nuclear weapon, it doesn't have particularly overpowered capabilities beyond something like a hunting rifle insofar as its ability to commit crime during peace.

I'm neither endorsing nor opposing the concept that civilians should be armed well enough to resist military actions (I don't really know of any data that shows this is more or less likely to lead to revolutions or injustice or whatever, nor can I even really think of what that data might hypothetically be...).

But it's hardly conceptually flat out ridiculous at face value, at least.

Well then, under Second Amendment, people should be able to get RPGs and Predator drones!

[FearfulJesuit]

Another threat of government shutdown could be on the horizon.

[smjjames]

Another threat of government shutdown could be on the horizon.

*SIGH*

I don't even.......

Not surprised that Ted Cruz is behind some of this, but the last time we did a government shutdown, the international bank or whatever knocked our bond ratings down a notch and basically said 'Stop being idiots!'. They could do the same thing again.

And they still haven't done the government bills....

While I definetly don't want us to go into default, people at this point are probably going 'You ACTUALLY want a default? You actually want to destroy the US economy? Fine, there you go, we'll do default, that's what you wanted isn't it!?!?!'

/end minirant

We also still have another debt ceiling thing coming at some point.

[Sergarr]

So this is why the USA is not declaring war on Russia! The conservative Putin sympathizers are the cause for that.

[FearfulJesuit]

By this point, I just giggle to myself whenever another government shutdown looks to be looming. Either I've become desensitized, or I just want to watch the chaos.

[Darvi]

Serg, stahp. The world doesn't revolve around you.

[GavJ]

Well then, under Second Amendment, people should be able to get RPGs and Predator drones!

As I was careful to point out in my post, a .50 cal does not really represent much additional threat to civilians by criminals during peacetime versus already legal alternatives like hunting rifles and AR-15s, etc. It only really poses a major additional threat to armored vehicles, which makes it actually a quite reasonable weapon type to consider for a "protecting against an unjust military" conception of the 2nd amendment. It's inherently "defensive value added" more so than offensive value added.

Whereas rocket launchers and drones are much worse examples, because they hugely increase offensive capabilities and mass destruction more so than defensive effectiveness, making them less reasonable to put in civilian hands due to legitimate concerns about crime enabling.

Treating it like a silly pure black and white situation doesn't help to make good policy.

[smjjames]

By this point, I just giggle to myself whenever another government shutdown looks to be looming. Either I've become desensitized, or I just want to watch the chaos.

Who doesn't like to watch the chaos and watch the government make an arse of itself.

We've got nothing on Belgium though. http://satwcomic.com/government-down

[Helgoland]

GavJ, remember the Mumbai attacks? Machine guns and hand grenades, nothing else. Imagine how robbery shootouts or even drive-by shootings would look if .50 cals were readily availible.

[Sergarr]

Now you make me imagine how a typical annual shootout would look if a shooter have had a .50 cal machinegun... In a middle of populated street.

Daaaamn.

[Frumple]

So this is why the USA is not declaring war on Russia! The conservative Putin sympathizers are the cause for that.

Nah, we just don't care about pointless flailing russia with weak noodly russian dong sticking balls into equally pointless noodly other european non-places. We'll declare war when russia actually matters again and does something of actual import to the USA (signs point to never, so we're good).

^ Actual reason why the USA isn't declaring war on russia.

[Helgoland]

Now you make me imagine how a typical annual shootout would look if a shooter have had a .50 cal machinegun... In a middle of populated street.

Daaaamn.

Precisely. No more fancy hijacking planes, just drive a technical into NYC and start shooting.

[Bauglir]

Another threat of government shutdown could be on the horizon.

Ordinarily, I'd refuse to believe anybody could actually be that stupid. But these are the House Republicans, so here we are, I guess.