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Bay12 Presidential Focus Polling 2016

Ted Cruz
- 7 (6.5%)
Rick Santorum
- 16 (14.8%)
Michelle Bachmann
- 13 (12%)
Chris Christie
- 23 (21.3%)
Rand Paul
- 49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107


Pages: 1 ... 344 345 [346] 347 348 ... 667

Author Topic: Bay12 Election Night Watch Party  (Read 837780 times)

scriver

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Stop hogging the thread, USA, or at least pay for a second seat.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Love, scriver~

GreatJustice

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Yeah that will negate the environmental problems I guess??

People tend to not waste electricity unnecessarily when they're paying for it. Obviously. That's why you don't have to pass laws against people leaving all of their appliances on, all the time.
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Even if I accepted this point I don't see how it impacts my argument at all.  You'd have to argue that the energy used in domestic lighting is insignificant if you wanted to make a valid point, and it really isn't.

Oh yes it is.
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I don't understand what point you're trying to make here at all.  Fewer inefficient bulbs will be made and sold.  The fact that a few people might hoard them doesn't change that.

It means that the impact made by this is leaning pretty far towards "negligible", except in the area of annoying people who want a bit more freedom in what light bulb they can purchase.
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Someone will benefit from this law therefore it is bad?

Did I say that?
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You could.  But you have to take other factors into account too, like whether other consequences of the bill would outweigh the good caused by increased energy efficiency.  Laws involving confiscation would obviously fail under these criteria due to the ridiculous expense of enforcing them and the fact that you're mostly hurting poor people by taking their stuff.  You could, however, put laws on the production on new fridges/washing machines.  Kindof like we already do.

Remind me, why do people buy incandescent light bulbs again?
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The person supporting regenerating health, when asked why you can see when shot in the eye justified it as 'you put on an eyepatch'. When asked what happens when you are then shot in the other eye, he said that you put an eyepatch on that eye. When asked how you'd be able to see, he said that your first eye would have healed by then.

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Frumple

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Yeah that will negate the environmental problems I guess??
People tend to not waste electricity unnecessarily when they're paying for it. Obviously. That's why you don't have to pass laws against people leaving all of their appliances on, all the time.
They don't. They really, really don't. Really, really, freaking seriously do not tend to not waste electricity unnecessarily just because they are paying for it. Sometimes it becomes an issue when they're extremely poor, but even then you regularly see folks living well under the poverty line leaving lights on all day, every day, or running the TV+ etc. constantly. Even when they're not taking advantage of welfare opportunities! In general, for the majority of everyone else, there's not a concern about wastage or price because even when the effect is tremendous on the net (i.e. on a national level), the effect on an individual is fairly minor. Leaving a light on isn't going to break most people's banks, or even do terribly much to their bottom line. Same for most power-related things. The majority don't have the knowledge or the interest or the flippin' care to worry about the price savings involved in switching to CFL or LED (even with the latter, even with the >=$14 minimum price range, LED costs less than incandescent at this point, from energy savings and massively longer lifespan!), or even a bloody lot of things power related.

So, just. Sorry, GJ, that's not just wrong, it's egregiously so. The fact that it's wrong is part of the reason it's taking stuff like laws and regulations to switch into more environmentally friendly stuff even when there's strong cost savings involved (as there are with switching from incandescent.).
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Ask not!
What your country can hump for you.
Ask!
What you can hump for your country.

GreatJustice

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Yeah that will negate the environmental problems I guess??
People tend to not waste electricity unnecessarily when they're paying for it. Obviously. That's why you don't have to pass laws against people leaving all of their appliances on, all the time.
They don't. They really, really don't. Really, really, freaking seriously do not tend to not waste electricity unnecessarily just because they are paying for it. Sometimes it becomes an issue when they're extremely poor, but even then you regularly see folks living well under the poverty line leaving lights on all day, every day, or running the TV+ etc. constantly. Even when they're not taking advantage of welfare opportunities! In general, for the majority of everyone else, there's not a concern about wastage or price because even when the effect is tremendous on the net (i.e. on a national level), the effect on an individual is fairly minor. Leaving a light on isn't going to break most people's banks, or even do terribly much to their bottom line. Same for most power-related things. The majority don't have the knowledge or the interest or the flippin' care to worry about the price savings involved in switching to CFL or LED (even with the latter, even with the >=$14 minimum price range, LED costs less than incandescent at this point, from energy savings and massively longer lifespan!), or even a bloody lot of things power related.

So, just. Sorry, GJ, that's not just wrong, it's egregiously so. The fact that it's wrong is part of the reason it's taking stuff like laws and regulations to switch into more environmentally friendly stuff even when there's strong cost savings involved (as there are with switching from incandescent.).

(Underlined): I really don't, though. Most people I know, from the poorest to the richest, at least tend to prefer saving energy to cut costs. Sometimes they don't, for whatever reason, but it generally isn't apathy. At least in the case of incandescents, some people genuinely prefer them regardless of the energy costs, and honestly I'm not seeing a huge problem in that. Others are going to switch regardless of a ban, and the near term difference in energy consumption between "people voluntarily switch bulbs as alternatives become improved" and "people discover they can't buy the bulbs they want after a point (unless they hoarded ahead of time) and are forced to use bulbs they don't want" isn't gigantic by any means.
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The person supporting regenerating health, when asked why you can see when shot in the eye justified it as 'you put on an eyepatch'. When asked what happens when you are then shot in the other eye, he said that you put an eyepatch on that eye. When asked how you'd be able to see, he said that your first eye would have healed by then.

Professional Bridge Toll Collector?

wierd

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I don't have the scope of experiences to frame an argument from the perspective of "the greater whole of the US population" concerning the use of a CFL vs an incandescant bulb.

I can only offer my personal experience, and personal reasoning.

At first, I did not like CFLs for a few noteworthy reasons:

1) they didn't use very good phosphor coatings, with poor phosphor persistence, which when coupled with my astigmatism, led to constant migrane headaches from the 60hz flicker.

2) because the phosphor coatings inside were poor choices for use in a constant illumination source, the light spectrum produced was decidedly unbalanced in favor of naked UV light, balanced with horrid greens and blues. I percieve color very well, and prefer a spectrum more closely matching that of natural light wherever possible. Until recently, CFLs did not provide either of these.

Up until recently, I used Reveal GE incandescant bulbs, even though they were quite expensive, and energy hogs.

In revent years, GE and pals have released "natural light" approximating CFL bulbs, with persistant phosphor layers. I have since switched, and haven't looked back.

The only remaining problem with CFL technology is the ecological footprint of refining the phosphor powders themselves (produced from rare earth elements that are rely on refining and processing techniques that are beyond merely harmful to the environment) but also require gassified mercury inside the tube itself to produce the high intensity UV light needed to excite the phosphor.

LED light sources could possibly alleviate this problem, using high output UV LEDs in place of the electrically excited mercury gas inside the CFL. However, the manufacturing processes for UV LEDs are still quite energy intensive, and require very pure materials to synthesize. This is why the costs of LED lighting systems have historically been so prohibitive. A coiled length of tungsten wire is downright primitive in comparison, and far more predisposed to mass commercial manufacture.

Unfortunately for LED technology, they themselves also rely on the petrochemical industry quite aggressively, as the "plastic part" outside the crystal diode itself is comprised of epoxy resins. This makes the recyling capabilities of the materials involved in LED manufacture suspect from the get-go, and sometimes the formulation of the diode itself contains toxic heavy metals as well.

Currently, I use CFLs, and I believe that they should be theoretically easier to recycle, once adoption hits critical mass, and mass recycling of the materials involved can benefit from economies of scale, since they have reached a level of quality that meets or exceeds the light characteristics of incandescant bulbs, and consume considerably less power, and last much longer.

The recylability of LED based lighting will have to improve tremendously to overcome their current shortcomings. When they do, and their directional lighting biases are balanced out using a diffusing phosphor, I will consider making the switch.




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FearfulJesuit

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Liz Cheney has bowed out of Wyoming's Senate race for this year. Holy shit, that's in ten months. The earliest primaries are in March. Gonna be a fun ride.

Also, Congress has discovered Doge.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 01:25:24 am by FearfulJesuit »
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@Footjob, you can microwave most grains I've tried pretty easily through the microwave, even if they aren't packaged for it.

Frumple

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Ask not!
What your country can hump for you.
Ask!
What you can hump for your country.

FearfulJesuit

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@Footjob, you can microwave most grains I've tried pretty easily through the microwave, even if they aren't packaged for it.

Max White

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Re: FJ's Murrican Politics Megathread 2: So dysfunction. Much Congress. Wow.
« Reply #5183 on: January 07, 2014, 01:46:27 am »

Ok guys, we need to know what is popular at the moment! What really gets peoples attention?

Well we have access to all of Googles data, so we checked to see what the most popular search phrases were. Here are the results...

What the fuck is a doge?

Bauglir

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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

MaximumZero

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Re: FJ's Murrican Politics Megathread 2: So dysfunction. Much Congress. Wow.
« Reply #5185 on: January 07, 2014, 04:13:10 am »

It all makes sense now. The senator was just trying to become a governor. So conspiracy. Much theories. Wow.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 05:49:28 am by MaximumZero »
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Holy crap, why did I not start watching One Punch Man earlier? This is the best thing.
probably figured an autobiography wouldn't be interesting

Xantalos

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Re: FJ's Murrican Politics Megathread 2: So dysfunction. Much Congress. Wow.
« Reply #5186 on: January 07, 2014, 04:18:58 am »

Taking bets that Shiba Inu dogs could do a better job at running Congress than actual Congress.
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Sig! Onol
Quote from: BFEL
XANTALOS, THE KARATEBOMINATION
Quote from: Toaster
((The Xantalos Die: [1, 1, 1, 6, 6, 6]))

LordSlowpoke

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Re: FJ's Murrican Politics Megathread 2: So dysfunction. Much Congress. Wow.
« Reply #5187 on: January 07, 2014, 04:35:18 am »

Taking bets that Shiba Inu dogs could do a better job at running Congress than actual Congress.

Taking donations for stealthily murdering members of Congress and replacing then with Shiba Inus.
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misko27

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Re: FJ's Murrican Politics Megathread 2: So dysfunction. Much Congress. Wow.
« Reply #5188 on: January 07, 2014, 01:29:51 pm »

Taking bets that Shiba Inu dogs could do a better job at running Congress than actual Congress.

Taking donations for stealthily murdering members of Congress and replacing then with Shiba Inus.
Look, I'm all for killing Congress, but should we really give the pet store lobbyists so much power?
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The Age of Man is over. It is the Fire's turn now

Bauglir

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Re: FJ's Murrican Politics Megathread 2: So dysfunction. Much Congress. Wow.
« Reply #5189 on: January 07, 2014, 02:23:25 pm »

I think the biggest problem is that the surviving congresspeople would gradually notice their intellects being dwarfed for no readily discernible reason.
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.
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