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Ted Cruz

7 (6.5%)

Rick Santorum

16 (14.8%)

Michelle Bachmann

13 (12%)

Chris Christie

23 (21.3%)

Rand Paul

49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107

[Bauglir]

Yeah, see, you're never going to convince a creationist of anything, because you're going to assume intellectual bankruptcy instead of a concept of Creation in medias res and/or ignorance of the consequences of relativity.

EDIT: Your opponent did not come into the discussion with the same premises as you (knowledge of and acceptance of experiments in abiogenesis and the theory of relativity). Assume that they're reasonable and their premises are flawed, not that they understand the universe in the same way you do and have just arbitrarily chosen to be wrong to fuck with you.

[kaijyuu]

Admittedly I'm tempted to make a Dwarf Fortress comic or something where some dwarves argue over whether the world could really be 1250 years old, considering all the geological evidence and such

Assume that they're reasonable and their premises are flawed

But they can't be reasonable! Why? Their premises are flawed. QED.

(joking )

[Aqizzar]

EDIT: Your opponent did not come into the discussion with the same premises as you (knowledge of and acceptance of experiments in abiogenesis and the theory of relativity). Assume that they're reasonable and their premises are flawed, not that they understand the universe in the same way you do and have just arbitrarily chosen to be wrong to fuck with you.

The irony being that every time I've had an argument with a Creationist, that's exactly what they assumed of me.  I know that kinda proves your point, but it's one thing to say "you have assume they're wrong in their premise, not their reasonableness" and another to have someone actually get in your face and insist bioscientists are only in their field because they believe Satan will reward them for spreading lies.

I shouldn't even be promoting this discussion, I just think there is such a thing as being too trusting.

[kaijyuu]

EDIT: Your opponent did not come into the discussion with the same premises as you (knowledge of and acceptance of experiments in abiogenesis and the theory of relativity). Assume that they're reasonable and their premises are flawed, not that they understand the universe in the same way you do and have just arbitrarily chosen to be wrong to fuck with you.

The irony being that every time I've had an argument with a Creationist, that's exactly what they assumed of me.  I know that kinda proves your point, but it's one thing to say "you have assume they're wrong in their premise, not their reasonableness" and another to have someone actually get in your face and insist bioscientists are only in their field because they believe Satan will reward them for spreading lies.

I shouldn't even be promoting this discussion, I just think there is such a thing as being too trusting.

Well certainly also participating in bad arguing behavior isn't the solution.

[MaximumZero]

EDIT: Your opponent did not come into the discussion with the same premises as you (knowledge of and acceptance of experiments in abiogenesis and the theory of relativity). Assume that they're reasonable and their premises are flawed, not that they understand the universe in the same way you do and have just arbitrarily chosen to be wrong to fuck with you.

The irony being that every time I've had an argument with a Creationist, that's exactly what they assumed of me.  I know that kinda proves your point, but it's one thing to say "you have assume they're wrong in their premise, not their reasonableness" and another to have someone actually get in your face and insist bioscientists are only in their field because they believe Satan will reward them for spreading lies.

I shouldn't even be promoting this discussion, I just think there is such a thing as being too trusting.

Hear hear. I've had to punch more than one person out because there was no other recourse after such an argument. I do my best to stay calm, but once people lay hands on me, all bets are off.

[Bauglir]

I had a post clarifying what I was trying to say typed up, but you're right, Aqizzar, we ought to drop it. This is several steps removed from American politics and has proven to be an unproductive conversation even in dedicated threads. Suffice it to say, I agree in general about how difficult it is when you're actually talking to a Creationist trying to convince you of the Way, the Truth, and the Light.

[Max White]

Admittedly I'm tempted to make a Dwarf Fortress comic or something where some dwarves argue over whether the world could really be 1250 years old, considering all the geological evidence and such

Wait, people actually run 1,250 worlds? I stop at about 50 years in, as primitive worlds with sparse villages and lots of mythic creatures is the nuts.

Although it does make for interesting conversation. How can the world be 50 years old, when dwarfs in this very embark are older than that?

[Aqizzar]

I had a post clarifying what I was trying to say typed up, but you're right, Aqizzar, we ought to drop it.

Indeed, I shouldn't even have typed it up.

So anyway, I'm actually out of the loop on American politics at this point, but supposedly Obamacare is now a thing, judging by the bomb shelter my boss built in his office.  Anything I should know about it at this point?

[Bauglir]

Admittedly I'm tempted to make a Dwarf Fortress comic or something where some dwarves argue over whether the world could really be 1250 years old, considering all the geological evidence and such

Wait, people actually run 1,250 worlds? I stop at about 50 years in, as primitive worlds with sparse villages and lots of mythic creatures is the nuts.

Although it does make for interesting conversation. How can the world be 50 years old, when dwarfs in this very embark are older than that?

"Why, in my day, all we had was abstractions and vague notions. None of this reality mumbo-jumbo. Kids these days don't know what it's like, not having any concrete objects or conception of space or time or luxuries like that. Spoiled 'em all rotten, it has."

Why yes this is politics related somehow.

[MaximumZero]

I had a post clarifying what I was trying to say typed up, but you're right, Aqizzar, we ought to drop it.

Indeed, I shouldn't even have typed it up.

So anyway, I'm actually out of the loop on American politics at this point, but supposedly Obamacare is now a thing, judging by the bomb shelter my boss built in his office.  Anything I should know about it at this point?

It's been terribly implemented, has a shitty website, and doesn't go far enough to actually provide affordable health care to anyone under the middle class?

[Max White]

Eh, Obamacare is the silliest care. I look forward to the day our comrades can once again rise and give actual public health care back to the workers.

[Helgoland]

Admittedly I'm tempted to make a Dwarf Fortress comic or something where some dwarves argue over whether the world could really be 1250 years old, considering all the geological evidence and such

Wait, people actually run 1,250 worlds? I stop at about 50 years in, as primitive worlds with sparse villages and lots of mythic creatures is the nuts.

Although it does make for interesting conversation. How can the world be 50 years old, when dwarfs in this very embark are older than that?

*raises hand, slowly*
Well, the world naturally is much older than 50 years; it's only recorded history which is that young.

[Max White]

Right, Helgoland is on wood chopping duty. Good luck with the zombie eagles!

If you thought Obamacare was inadequacy, just wait until you see what we have!

[Frumple]

So anyway, I'm actually out of the loop on American politics at this point, but supposedly Obamacare is now a thing, judging by the bomb shelter my boss built in his office.  Anything I should know about it at this point?

Preeetty sure it still has something like 2-3 months before everything really kicks in. Which is to say it's something like february or march that they start fining and laying tax penalties for noncompliance. Ask again come, like, september or something. Maybe next year. Just make sure you've got some sort of health insurance, in order to avoid penalties. Don't think they're particularly picky, as I recall, but there's credits and whatnot for lower income folks, so... yeah.

[mainiac]

Don't think they're particularly picky, as I recall, but there's credits and whatnot for lower income folks, so... yeah.

Anything that you can buy meets the mandate.  The standards are upheld on the sellers side, not the buyers side.  But if you don't already have insurance you probably are poor enough to qualify for subsidies.