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Ted Cruz

7 (6.5%)

Rick Santorum

16 (14.8%)

Michelle Bachmann

13 (12%)

Chris Christie

23 (21.3%)

Rand Paul

49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107

[Chaoswizkid]

So, err, the Silent Majority? I think people will vote for it on the basis that he's the president and we should do what he says.

I'm not sure you understand what the Silent Majority is/means if you're putting those two sentences next to each other.

[ggamer]

I think people will vote for it on the basis that he's the president and we should do what he says.

* MetalSlimeHunt collapses in a hysterical laughing fit.

Oh

Ohhh my

No, not quite.

Not quite.

[misko27]

I demand a better explanation then. Because the current mind set is "Eh, well, err, okay".

[Il Palazzo]

I'm not sure whether it fits beter in the "Egypt" thread or here. But since the discussion about Syria dominates...

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/09/your-labor-day-syria-reader-part-2-william-polk/279255/

Anyone still supporting an intervention over the recent gas attacks should read it.

It's a calm and level-headed look at the event and the US government's response, written by this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_R._Polk

[Owlbread]

A heavily armed SWAT team in Arkansas is unable to restrain a 107 year old man with a gun, instead they resort to killing him.

When they pumped gas into the room after failing to negotiate with him, Monroe Isadore began firing at the officers. They shot him.

Here is an image of the gentleman.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Yeah, that's cops for you. Shoot first, perjure later.

[Darvi]

Well, in fairness, he shot first.

But still. Centennarian. Not exactly Rambo, innit.

[Sheb]

Centenarian with a gun can kill you easily. Doesn't take much strength to pull a trigger.

[Owlbread]

He fired at them through a doorway and missed.

[Sheb]

Still, he shot first. Had they refused to use deadly force, he could have killed one of the officers.

[Darvi]

I'm pretty sure there's other ways of preventing somebody getting killed than killing the other guy first.

[Sheb]

When that guy is shooting at you? Seriously, this fall under self-defense, fair and square.

[Nadaka]

I'm pretty sure there's other ways of preventing somebody getting killed than killing the other guy first.

As  hard a line as I draw with police brutality, I do not yet see anything here to indicate an unjustified use of force by the officers.

[SalmonGod]

It's one of those where I'm not going to say the police were obviously in the wrong, but I seriously question why things need to be handled the way they were.  What was the nature of this "domestic disturbance"?  Was he posing an immediate danger to anyone?  I've read two articles about this already, and my impression is he just had himself locked in a room and wasn't cooperating.  So what?  He's not the most mobile person, I'm sure.  Why was it not possible to create a safe zone around him and wait him out or take some time to find a better solution?  What's with the urgency?  Afraid they'll miss their lunch breaks waiting for a 107 year old man to fall asleep?

[Owlbread]

When that guy is shooting at you? Seriously, this fall under self-defense, fair and square.

Surely there was another way to handle a 107 year old man firing a handgun than to kill him? He only has so many bullets. I've heard that they threw a "distraction" device at him then killed him, but information is hazy at the moment, as you would imagine.

We don't know, but this man could have been suffering from dementia and was sundowning. In fact, he probably was at that age. We need to have better ways of dealing with guys like that than to just kill them. If my grandmother had a handgun and was only a bit more aggressive, I could see her pulling something like this when she gets bad.

I've often been interested in the protocols for "self defence" and killing people and so forth though. I understand that in a place like the USA where owning a gun for self defence is quite possible, people are advised to shoot to kill if they encounter a burglar in their house because it's the easiest way to deal with them. If they maim them in some way (at least, if the burglar survives), the burglar can sue you for a large sum of money and possibly have your gun taken away. Police officers seem to take the line that if there is any risk, euphemisms like "neutralise the threat" start getting thrown around and someone gets shot and killed. I know it's the most practical, safe way to deal with a guy with a gun after negotiations fail, but maybe this case will show that the practical, safe way isn't always the prettiest and can lead to repugnant outcomes.