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Ted Cruz

7 (6.5%)

Rick Santorum

16 (14.8%)

Michelle Bachmann

13 (12%)

Chris Christie

23 (21.3%)

Rand Paul

49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107

[Helgoland]

Adding to that, the government is more capable than Best Korea*, and the structure might be easier to change than China. I mean, unlike China, this country has an actual democracy.

Actual democracy? That's - quite a stretch. I mean, candidates have to be pre-approved! The head of state is a cleric! They do have a degree of democracy, sure, that's why I called them autocratic and not dictatorial; but the rest of the system is designed in a way that it cannot bend to accomodate democratic reforms, it can only break. That's the problem with the claim to a divine mandate
China has the great advantage that it has long abandoned its ideology in favor of pragmatism and lip-service to the Great Chairman; it has no structural elements that prevent further reform, at least in principle. Iran, on the other hand, is as unpragmatic as governments that are at least moderately sane get - otherwise, they would have abandoned their nuclear ambitions quite some time ago. At least they can feed their people...

[10ebbor10]

Iran abandoned it's nuclear ambitions quite some time ago.  There has been no evidence that Iran continued it Nuclear weapons development past 2003. ((There have also been no real evidence that it abandoned the program, but anyway.)) They have always claimed it was a civilian program, intended for peacefull uses only.

The problem is that they refuse to give up the option to restart the program.

Edit: In fact, Iran has been a constant proponent of the creation of a Nuclear weapon free zone in the Middle East.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Well yeah, pretty much all the non-Israel states are going to publicly advocate a nuclear free zone. Doesn't mean they actually believe that outside of seeking a geopolitical advantage over Israel.

[Leafsnail]

If Iran wanted a nuke it would have one by now.

[Leafsnail]

Except for Pakistan (and maybe Russia, if you stretch "unstable"), they tend not to have nukes, which makes their cases a bit less worrying.

North Korea

[Helgoland]

Except for Pakistan (and maybe Russia, if you stretch "unstable"), they tend not to have nukes, which makes their cases a bit less worrying.

North Korea

The Kim would probably win a last-dynasty-standing match with any given dictator family, except maybe the Bushes. There's a ridiculous amount of foreign interest in keeping the North Korean status quo - the Chinese want it, the Americans want it, the South Koreans want it, and nobody seems to give a shit about the North Koreans. Revolts are not very likely due to sheer isolation, and an internal coup against the Kims would just exchange one leader for the other, without touching the system.
Seriously, I don't see North Korea being toppled anytime soon.

[misko27]

Obama to address nation on Syria on Tuesday. He plans to answer the numerous requests to "Explain to the deeply skeptical Americans/congress/colleagues_of_mine/constituents_of_mine why to do this".


It seems increasingly his ability to grab his own undecided democrats is what will make or break him.

[Chaoswizkid]

Nun living in Syria has meticulously studied the supposed chemical warfare use footage, raises serious questions about its authenticity, will report findings to the UN.

[10ebbor10]

Except for Pakistan (and maybe Russia, if you stretch "unstable"), they tend not to have nukes, which makes their cases a bit less worrying.

North Korea

The Kim would probably win a last-dynasty-standing match with any given dictator family, except maybe the Bushes. There's a ridiculous amount of foreign interest in keeping the North Korean status quo - the Chinese want it, the Americans want it, the South Koreans want it, and nobody seems to give a shit about the North Koreans. Revolts are not very likely due to sheer isolation, and an internal coup against the Kims would just exchange one leader for the other, without touching the system.
Seriously, I don't see North Korea being toppled anytime soon.

However, I do see them capable selling nuclear weapons to terrorists to obliterate American Evil.

[Scoops Novel]

If they don't do something they'll be condemned for not intervening against forces using chemical weapons.

By who? The American public is fed up with Obama, they're fed up with the middle east and they're fed up with military action. The public doesn't care if someone uses chemical weapons on their own people right now. Britain, our biggest buddy, doesn't care either. Nor does our most prominent geopolitical 'adversary', Russia. Who's left to condemn the US government? The US government?

Is the case against Syrian intervention in the US based on our track record with civilian casualties (presumably worse then those that will happen otherwise), or loss of soldiers? Is it skepticism over humanitarian motives? All of the above?

[Frumple]

Rather imagine the largest issues are soldier-related (not so much loss as deployment) and simple cost. Lot of sentiment I've ran in to in person is that we're simply tired of pissing away money screwing around in *stans when the economy at home is still hurting.

The general american public doesn't really care all that much about civilian casualties or humanitarian issues, in blunt honesty. Not enough for it to actually impact decision making any notable amount. We care more about our children (soldiers) and pocketbook -- domestic issues, in other words.

[FearfulJesuit]

The trouble is, occasionally you run into a situation where you DO have to take action...and because you've spend ten years pissing money away, it's a hard sell.

[GlyphGryph]

And at least from what I've seen and heard locally the portion that DOES care about humanitarian issues frankly doesn't trust the US government to take actions that are actually humanitarian, both from an intent and competence point of view.

The US government has no credibility left on this issue - it can't convince the selfish folk it's in the US's best interest, and it can't convince the humanitarian folk that's its actions will make things better. It can't convince the skeptical folk, like Russia and many others locally, that it even happened, because it's lied about so many things before when it wanted to start a war. It can't convince the financially conservative folk it will be cheap - they are afraid it will escalate. They can't convince the hawks it will pay off, because we're explicitly limiting our options to a limited strike which is practically guaranteed not to pay off.

Honestly, I'm surprised anyone is supporting it - no one seems to have a good reason to believe, trust, or go along with the administration on this issue.

[misko27]

And at least from what I've seen and heard locally the portion that DOES care about humanitarian issues frankly doesn't trust the US government to take actions that are actually humanitarian, both from an intent and competence point of view.

The US government has no credibility left on this issue - it can't convince the selfish folk it's in the US's best interest, and it can't convince the humanitarian folk that's its actions will make things better. It can't convince the skeptical folk, like Russia and many others locally, that it even happened, because it's lied about so many things before when it wanted to start a war. It can't convince the financially conservative folk it will be cheap - they are afraid it will escalate. They can't convince the hawks it will pay off, because we're explicitly limiting our options to a limited strike which is practically guaranteed not to pay off.

Honestly, I'm surprised anyone is supporting it - no one seems to have a good reason to believe, trust, or go along with the administration on this issue.

Don't forget the Interventionists not being convinced it'll even accomplish anything.


So, err, the Silent Majority? I think people will vote for it on the basis that he's the president and we should do what he says. Unless he manages to make a excellent case on Tuesday of course.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I think people will vote for it on the basis that he's the president and we should do what he says.

* MetalSlimeHunt collapses in a hysterical laughing fit.