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Ted Cruz

7 (6.5%)

Rick Santorum

16 (14.8%)

Michelle Bachmann

13 (12%)

Chris Christie

23 (21.3%)

Rand Paul

49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107

[Nadaka]

TIL sharing your deeply held convictions with your children is genocide.

genocide? where do you get that? if i am not supposed to compare religions with viruses, you shouldnt either.

 no, but it doesnt really give them much of a choice in the matter. they dont get the opportunity to choose what to believe, they are programmed.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Nobody said anything about genocide, Willfor.

[Willfor]

I was using hyperbole. Ineffectively, but I was attempting to.

This is me actually trying to be serious: I think you're giving WAY too little credit to the human mind. And this me, an anti-humanist, telling you, a humanist, that the human mind is more capable of overcoming "programming" than you are giving it credit for.

Additionally, and I know this probably just me misreading your post here:

Its always been about religious preservation and expansion.

You are being EXTREMELY western judeochristian-centric, and missing a grand amount of history and global context.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Its always been about religious preservation and expansion.

You are being EXTREMELY western judeochristian-centric, and missing a grand amount of history and global context.

It's not really Christian centric (Judaism does not factor into this analysis) so much as it is Universalizing-centric. These kinds of extreme reactions are what happens when a universalizing religion begins to falter and collapse. Christianity is just the only major universalizing religion in this position right now, with Islam and Buddhism mostly holding strong.

[Nadaka]

abrahamic religions are not the only ones with a be fruitful and multiply policy, most of them that survive more than a couple generations do. not western centric at all.

deprogramming myself was the most difficult thing i have ever done. it is not at all an easy thing, for a lot of people, it is completely impossible.

[RedKing]

Thing is, it's not like this is the only Christian grouping that opposes birth control and believes in big families. We call the one other one "Catholics".

I mean, one of my cousins is a staunch Hispanic Catholic married to a quite attractive Catholic wife. They pop out kids like FOX pops out reality shows. Every Christmas, we get a card with a family photo and it's N+1 and she looks pregnant again.

It's not necessarily about Catholic expansionism or preserving patriarchy or any of that. It's just lack of birth control and the fact that the dude loves banging his wife (can't blame him).


That said, in the case of the Quiverfull movement, I think it varies for many of the followers. But certainly some of the key proponents of the movement are thinking in terms of a demographic war with "the kingdoms of darkness" as Nancy Campbell puts it in that interview.

[Willfor]

It's not really Christian centric (Judaism does not factor into this analysis) so much as it is Universalizing-centric. These kinds of extreme reactions are what happens when a universalizing religion begins to falter and collapse. Christianity is just the only major universalizing religion in this position right now, with Islam and Buddhism mostly holding strong.

And it's not actually, Christian centric either if you're going to start picking it apart, it's only the conservative denominations within it. The parts of Christianity that I try to affiliate my belief systems with are not experiencing this at all. Which is why it tends to boggle my mind when we're all lumped in together as attempting to maintain relevance when some of us are actually ... doing it naturally?

[10ebbor10]

It's not really Christian centric (Judaism does not factor into this analysis) so much as it is Universalizing-centric. These kinds of extreme reactions are what happens when a universalizing religion begins to falter and collapse. Christianity is just the only major universalizing religion in this position right now, with Islam and Buddhism mostly holding strong.

And it's not actually, Christian centric either if you're going to start picking it apart, it's only the conservative denominations within it. The parts of Christianity that I try to affiliate my belief systems with are not experiencing this at all. Which is why it tends to boggle my mind when we're all lumped in together as attempting to maintain relevance when some of us are actually ... doing it naturally?

Fundamentalism is a reaction to change. This is not indicative of decay (Christian belief is doing fairly well. The Church as institute might be having some troubles, but anyway). It started in the 19^the century, after all.

[Scoops Novel]

Eh, in the English youths mind, and quite possibly the western, Christianity is dying. Some are taking it more gracefully then others. I wonder what's happening with Buddhism. It's one of the more impregnable philosophys, depending on your take.

[GlyphGryph]

TIL sharing your deeply held convictions with your children is genocide.

Deep children are a part of Juffo Wup. Cessation of an Individual is Unavoidable.

[SalmonGod]

TIL sharing your deeply held convictions with your children is genocide.

I also don't share my convictions with my children, at least I have not thus far.  Admittedly, I might someday need to share some part of them, if necessary for them to understand something.  My ideal is to leave the issue alone completely until they're older, and equipped to digest the subject critically on their own.  I think spiritual matters such as religion should be left completely up to the individual, but programming bias from an early age is the opposite of that.

Yes, some kids are resistant to indoctrination or manage to break out when they grow up, but in my experience these are the exception, not the rule.  It's also usually because the parents fail at sheltering the kid from outside influence somehow.  I've had extended conversations with people who were completely sheltered in a religious environment all the way to young adulthood, and in every case I know have found them completely incapable of thinking outside of what they've been raised on.  Presenting any other idea that they haven't already been trained to counter generally results in BSOD, followed by pretending you never said anything.  The data is simply tossed out.  I consider them brainwashed.

And I'm not saying this to be anti-religious at all.  I'm just anti-brainwashing.

[Willfor]

I've had extended conversations with people who were completely sheltered in a religious environment all the way to young adulthood, and in every case I know have found them completely incapable of thinking outside of what they've been raised on.  Presenting any other idea that they haven't already been trained to counter generally results in BSOD, followed by pretending you never said anything.  The data is simply tossed out.

This is actually quite the opposite of my experience, and I find that fascinating. I have shared with this board that I was homeschooled, and that we had a bit of a support network of other kids who were homeschooled. It was all very religious based education, about as indoctrinating as you can get. I had two best friends during this period. One is very openly gay now, though still very connected with his family (which is strange, they were the most conservative of the families in the group...), and one is a fairly vocal atheist now. These aren't isolated incidents either.

I wonder if we both have confirmation bias.

[misko27]

Its always been about religious preservation and expansion.

Its a lot easier to remotely configure a freshly installed system than it is to try and get up and running on something that already has a host of shady software or worse, a properly configured firewall.

This, makes, no sense, without context. My guess is religious hackers.I would find out how Drone war became a religious/humanist discussion (looking back it appears to only have even been tangentially related to American politics to begin with), But frankly it's a wee bit off topic.


As for, quiver fall? I see your Stupid, and raise you a Regression to the Mean. Unless they plan to indoctrinate all human beings (or interbreed, but that's a different story), regression to the mean happens. Oh, and I was home-schooled for a few years, but my mom happened to be a professor of Political Science, and not a particularly devout christian, and so it was fairly balanced If I do say so myself.

One more thing. There was a incident recently where a Westboro Baptist Church member who had been raised in the church, broke with it and broke down and apologized to people.

[Scoops Novel]

How far along is your America's regression to the mean?

[SalmonGod]

I wonder if we both have confirmation bias.

Could be.  I do acknowledge that it's very likely I have known people who had such an upbringing and did not come out of it brainwashed, and I simply didn't know that they had such an upbringing.  I have also known some people who grew up in environments so extremely strictly religious that it was abusive, which only caused them to be resentful towards religion as adults.

I was raised in a halfway religious household up to about 9 or 10 years old.  My mom was raised Catholic and even went to a Catholic school, complete with psychotic nuns.  She converted to Jehovah's Witness as a young adult (due to resentment over her experiences with Catholicism), and that's how I was raised when I was little.  My dad's an atheist, but was hands off the matter.  It never, ever occurred to me that young to question anything about what I was taught.  She began to drift away from it by the time I was 7 or 8, and I think about 10 years old is the very last contact I had with that environment.  A couple years later is when I began to question, because I was left completely to my own mental devices at that point.  I was also the only person in my class who didn't go to church with everyone else, so I found myself with an outsider's perspective through my teen years.  My mom remains non-denominational/non-practicing Christian.