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[Nerjin]

Y'know what? Do whatever you want Ford. If you're really willing to risk the entire game because someone said "I pinky swear" than go right ahead.

[Toaster]

Ford:

Between 0 and 1 scum:
ToonyMan
NQT
Nerjin

This part is incorrect. It's 0 to 2 scum, because Leafsnail could have been the only spy in both the other groups. This invalidates most of the logic in the rest of your post.

Shit.  In hindsight, we shouldn't have sent Leafsnail purely to spread the read around.

Redoing the diagram to account for that leads to pretty much nil.


Tiruin:

Tiruin:  So who do you think is the most likely scum team?

Leafsnail - confirmed scum. I'm not assuming there were any buddies brought in who performed a lay low action. Anything else is still up for verification.

My trust on Leafsnail has dropped quite a bit, but I think it's entirely possible that he and Tiruin are both scum.

...Why. On the trust, and on the both scum.

How is he confirmed scum?  That's a meaningful word.

Trust what?

It's entirely possible... because it's entirely possible.  If one of you sabotaged and the other held back, there'd only be one sabotage.  What's there to misunderstand about that?


Toony:

Captain Ford
ToonyMan
Toaster
Dariush or Zombie Urist

I am okay with this.


NQT:

Toonyman, on my honour as a scholar and a gentleman, I am not a spy. May my name be forever vilified and cursed and untrusted on this mafia forum if I should be found to be lying now. Is there any other person here that would stake their honour on this matter?

Nobody No one with sense cares.


Ford:

Toonyman, on my honour as a scholar and a gentleman, I am not a spy. May my name be forever vilified and cursed and untrusted on this mafia forum if I should be found to be lying now. Is there any other person here that would stake their honour on this matter?

I'll take that. I wouldn't make a play like this, but I know you're the kind of fool that would. And I'm pretty certain you wouldn't play this card if you were already on the verge of winning.

...

I have a great statue of a lady standing in New York Harbor I'd like to sell you.


Leafsnail:  At what point did you decide Nerjin was scum?  What was the deciding factor?

[Leafsnail]

Leafsnail:  At what point did you decide Nerjin was scum?  What was the deciding factor?

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=122540.msg4023759#msg4023759
Here, the post where I first call him scum.

The deciding factor was actually him submitting a random team.  The fact that he clearly did not receive a rebel role PM helped too (and him contradicting himself on his role did too).

[Toaster]

So what, if he had not gotten a rebel PM but sent in a non-random team you wouldn't think he was scum?

[Leafsnail]

No.  Him not receiving a rebel role PM could have been the deciding factor if another thing hadn't already beaten it to being the deciding factor.

[Captain Ford]

Y'know what? Do whatever you want Ford. If you're really willing to risk the entire game because someone said "I pinky swear" than go right ahead.

I have a great statue of a lady standing in New York Harbor I'd like to sell you.

Did you guys just decide to ignore the rest of my post? I was already rethinking my read of NQT before he posted that.

Now follow along with me here:

NQT is a genuinely friendly guy. He was genuinely shocked and offended by the way he was treated in this game compared to the last one.

You know that part in the scumhunting bible that says "keep it up and they'll crack, allowing you to see a glimpse of their true self." Well, NQT cracked, and I got a really good look. He is genuine about being baffled by the way we're treating him.

However ... the only other reason he'd be doing it is because his team is very close to losing. He was addressing Toony, which would probably mean that he thought one of Toony's teams was likely. Which would mean that they were good.
...except that there were seven people contained in those lists, so at least one of them is guaranteed to be a spy.

...but I think that's a real stretch. NQT was clearly replying to the part where Toony said: "Either Nerjin or NQT is likely the third spy."

Also, I'm not willing to throw out the possibility that both Toaster and Leafsnail are spies, either. It's entirely possible, especially if Tiruin is a rebel. He'd have no way of knowing, and it makes sense that competent spies would look like strong rebels, and could both end up on a team drafted by a rebel trying to compromise.

PPE: Leafsnail

No.  Him not receiving a rebel role PM could have been the deciding factor if another thing hadn't already beaten it to being the deciding factor.

What about him not knowing when the deadline was?

You're saying you don't buy his story about him handling the pressure poorly and running out of time?

[Leafsnail]

What about him not knowing when the deadline was?

You're saying you don't buy his story about him handling the pressure poorly and running out of time?

A lie, yes.

[Captain Ford]

What about him not knowing when the deadline was?

You're saying you don't buy his story about him handling the pressure poorly and running out of time?

A lie, yes.

So then why did he choose the team randomly if not because he couldn't make a decision?

[Leafsnail]

- The team would very probably (5/6) include a spy allowing the spies to win that round
- A team selected randomly gives the town no relational tells to go off

[Captain Ford]

...alright, I get it. I don't agree with it, but I get it.

[Captain Ford]

ZU:

Toony: As the person I have the strongest read on, I'm really interested in knowing who you would send.

Can't think for yourself?

Please. His knowledge of their meta was actually a valuable contribution, and something I couldn't have gotten on my own.

If you've got something more substantial to add than "this team looks good", I'd love to hear it.

[Captain Ford]

Ugh...GG hasn't answered yet, so I don't know when the deadline is. I think I have at least another 12 hours, though.

If the weekend doesn't count against the deadline (which might be implied by the really long voting period on the first proposed team), then I've got until Wednesday, I think. I'll check back in the morning to see if anything's been posted.

Fair warning, though. Due to a snafu with my doctor's office I may end up being unmedicated tomorrow. Which would pretty much mean I'd be completely useless for a day. If I'm lucky, it'll get sorted out tomorrow morning. But if not ... well ... expect the unexpectable.

(Although I doubt I would submit a team proposal that includes entirely fictional characters, I wouldn't rule it out as a possibility)

[Tiruin]

Leafsnail feels like BYOR11 (this applies to Toaster too, but I would judge not as much) and Tiruin feels like Prince's Guard.

Yeeaaah >.>
I've learned not to repeat my shenanigans of LET'S BUS MY SCUMBUDDY in such blatant a manner. Lying on that kind of scale was hard enough, especially with...that backlash.

However thanks for bringing those fond memories up. Thanks.

Why are you so certain? What has changed to make you think Leafsnail was scum, specifically?

I've re-read LS's posts hard. He's a shrewd yet contemplative player. He outs me as scum for a completely weak reason and then reverts to a neutral-ish stance later on when trying to implicate who among the first mission-ers did so.


Ford: Did you pick the team already? I don't see any red O_o

[Tiruin]

EBWOP:

Tiruin:

Tiruin:  So who do you think is the most likely scum team?

Leafsnail - confirmed scum. I'm not assuming there were any buddies brought in who performed a lay low action. Anything else is still up for verification.

My trust on Leafsnail has dropped quite a bit, but I think it's entirely possible that he and Tiruin are both scum.

...Why. On the trust, and on the both scum.

How is he confirmed scum?  That's a meaningful word.

Trust what?

It's entirely possible... because it's entirely possible.  If one of you sabotaged and the other held back, there'd only be one sabotage.  What's there to misunderstand about that?

Trust > why did it drop.

On the rest...I give up. Personally, I can't explain it anymore than anyone else is without just blatantly saying I'm town. I know that I didn't sabotage my own mission (because that would be the stupidest move ever made judging from long term goals and the current logic of that day)

And I'm sure that there was only one spy on that mission. What there is to misunderstand is how to perpetrate who laid back and who sabotaged - real hard to do. One thing is, nobody can be silenced via death or roleflip. No emotions can be seen other than what we say in words, and even that is fallible to formatting.

The fact that he clearly did not receive a rebel role PM helped too (and him contradicting himself on his role did too).

Define a rebel PM.

[GlyphGryph]

Generally, I reserve the right to close after three days. Since people seem to want longer spans for the weekend, I'll only count them as one.

Realistically, I am disinclined to close and would rather get a team proposal, so as long as it looks like there's a lot of activity or a chance one is forthcoming soon, I probably wont. The time limit is mostly there for pressure on the team leaders, so, Team Leaders:
If it's been three days (weekends count as one), I reserve the right to pass to the next leader, without notice, if I think it will move the game along. I would suggest trying to make your proposals before that deadline passes - otherwise, you are playing with fire.

If people REALLY want more time, they can explicitly request ONE 3-day extension per planning period.