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[Criptfeind]

*scifi books I meant

Where. Does. What.

How can you take someone saying "Indie games did not exist". And then reply "No you are wrong Indie books did exist"? How does that make sense in any reality?

[TheBronzePickle]

He was talking about the term 'indie', not indie games specifically.

[LoSboccacc]

Your reading capability can't encompass the two related posts?

[Muz]

90% of everything is crap.  In the big industry, that means I Shoot You Face 9.  In the indie world, it means the creator wanks all over the place.  There's good stuff on either side, if you can find it.

Yeah this. Look at Youtube music. There's always someone saying that "music was better back then". Fact is that there was a whole lot of shitty music back then, and even the mediocre ones seemed good because they were the first one we remembered. And our standards just keep going up.

For all the great games we remember, we forget Generic Point And Click (Text) Adventure Game XXVII or Shoot Aliens. There was tons of crap back then. Just look at Home of the Underdogs. Most of the games that are at the top are unplayable by today's mainstream standards. And then there's the bad games that don't get highlighted. And then there's the bad forgettable games that don't even get mentioned or remembered.

Honestly, I like a lot of the new games. I like a lot of indie games today. They are good and fun and have actually left out a lot of crap. Monetization will always be there. Sometimes the pressure creates diamonds, other times it creates sludge.

[peskyninja]

I'm seriously considering bombing EA. Did anyone see what they did to Sim city and Dead space? I miss the days when Maxis was independent and still had Will... Will why you left? Why you left to design ant farms? Now if star citizen, maia and planetary anihilation go full casual  , I'll comit sudoku.

[Man of Paper]

I'll comit sudoku.

Becoming a 9x9 box of 9x9 boxes full of numbers is a fate worse than death.

[Levi]

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/01/17/ironfell-is-the-cutest-most-unfair-mmo-of-today

I'm not sure why RPS is practically advertising these kinds of games lately, but I thought it was relevant to the thread.

A lot of people honestly believe its perfectly okay to pay for an advantage in games.  Pay 2 Win games are becoming acceptable for gamers, and this enrages me to no end.  Even the smallest purchasable advantage in a multiplayer game annoys the hell out of me. 

I honestly can't figure out why it became so acceptable though.  I don't understand why the majority doesn't think the same way I do.  Part of me is paranoid that F2P games will become the standard, rather than the exception.  I know there will always be some games and developers that won't embrace the F2P models, but I'm sure its ruining a generation of child gamers out there who can't understand the difference between skill and money and have no concept of fair play.

[Criptfeind]

He was talking about the term 'indie', not indie games specifically.

He literally and specifically said Indie games where LoSboccacc quoted him.

[peskyninja]

Even the smallest purchasable advantage in a multiplayer game annoys the hell out of me..

Same thing here mate.

[LoSboccacc]

He was talking about the term 'indie', not indie games specifically.

He literally and specifically said Indie games where LoSboccacc quoted him.

Guys, start from here:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=122006.msg3974473#msg3974473

An read the three messages.

Makes sense now? Remember, a thread may contain discussions, not just self contained posts.

Can we let this die now?

[Criptfeind]

Gasp. You are right. If you start where the discussion started, and not a 'self contained post' that apparently had nothing to do with the thread. You can see that he said Indie games.

Also, come on. Making a argument then asking the argument stops is the height of hypocrisy. Good job there.

[Leatra]

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/01/17/ironfell-is-the-cutest-most-unfair-mmo-of-today

I'm not sure why RPS is practically advertising these kinds of games lately, but I thought it was relevant to the thread.

A lot of people honestly believe its perfectly okay to pay for an advantage in games.  Pay 2 Win games are becoming acceptable for gamers, and this enrages me to no end.  Even the smallest purchasable advantage in a multiplayer game annoys the hell out of me. 

I honestly can't figure out why it became so acceptable though.  I don't understand why the majority doesn't think the same way I do.  Part of me is paranoid that F2P games will become the standard, rather than the exception.  I know there will always be some games and developers that won't embrace the F2P models, but I'm sure its ruining a generation of child gamers out there who can't understand the difference between skill and money and have no concept of fair play.

Heh, I thought I was the only one who thought like that.

[miauw62]

The gaming world of most 12-14 years old consists mainly of COD and Fifa ATM.

[ndkid]

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/01/17/ironfell-is-the-cutest-most-unfair-mmo-of-today

I'm not sure why RPS is practically advertising these kinds of games lately, but I thought it was relevant to the thread.

A lot of people honestly believe its perfectly okay to pay for an advantage in games.  Pay 2 Win games are becoming acceptable for gamers, and this enrages me to no end.  Even the smallest purchasable advantage in a multiplayer game annoys the hell out of me. 

I honestly can't figure out why it became so acceptable though.  I don't understand why the majority doesn't think the same way I do.  Part of me is paranoid that F2P games will become the standard, rather than the exception.  I know there will always be some games and developers that won't embrace the F2P models, but I'm sure its ruining a generation of child gamers out there who can't understand the difference between skill and money and have no concept of fair play.

Heh, I thought I was the only one who thought like that.

Well, tracing backward, there are lots of examples of pay-to-play-more, which often leads to an advantage. There's pay-for-cooler-looking-stuff, which was all about social pissing contests. There was pay-for-new-content, which moved the goalposts of what winning was.

So, yeah, I think it's an evolution whose most recent ancestors have been in the MMO world. The earliest examples there would be paying someone for l00t and leveling characters. I'm sure there was a precedent prior to MMOs in gaming, but they'd be far more exceptional before that point.

Of course, in life, the idea of paying more for victory has been around for ages.

[coolio678]

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/01/17/ironfell-is-the-cutest-most-unfair-mmo-of-today

I'm not sure why RPS is practically advertising these kinds of games lately, but I thought it was relevant to the thread.

A lot of people honestly believe its perfectly okay to pay for an advantage in games.  Pay 2 Win games are becoming acceptable for gamers, and this enrages me to no end.  Even the smallest purchasable advantage in a multiplayer game annoys the hell out of me. 

I honestly can't figure out why it became so acceptable though.  I don't understand why the majority doesn't think the same way I do.  Part of me is paranoid that F2P games will become the standard, rather than the exception.  I know there will always be some games and developers that won't embrace the F2P models, but I'm sure its ruining a generation of child gamers out there who can't understand the difference between skill and money and have no concept of fair play.

100% with you, on the buying power. But, I'm also really with you on the f2p becoming the norm. Sure, I like playing some planetside as much as the next guy (if I could get the stupid thing to update for once) but I don't want that for every game.
 There was once an article on ign, I think it was, that was saying how f2p WAS the future. They used an example of something like street fighter. If you don't use all the characters, then why do you have to pay for them? My response to that is that you're paying for a complete experience. I don't want to buy a book cover, and then purchase the individual chapters, if I want the whole book.