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[jocan2003]

I would gladly pitch in with my 2 cents on this matter, but I've just come to one distinct realization:

ALL industries are suffering from this problem. Look at the drug industry. Clinical testing to get FDA approval is a joke since several people who work for the FDA also work for the drug companies, the people who write the medical diagnostic books are also on the payroll, side effects are not fully revealed to the public, et cetera. Of course, I could go on all day about that, but that's not the point. EVERY industry's leaders try their best to make as much money as possible. Guess what? The gaming industry is just that- another industry. Another means of trying to make money for the big few. Not saying that there aren't good games. Just expect most of the big companies' games to be made with money in mind, just like how almost every single major industry is right now- money, and nothing more.

The bad thing ( as it make me realise im becoming older.... ), i still remember the time where time was spent on gameplay and not flash to appeal the mass. Just think about the first X-Com compared to the one today, think uncharted Waters: New horizon, shadowrun on genesis ( while not heavy on originality it still had lot of replayability and so on ). Heck even pizza Tycoon was awesome. Now today is make a game flash to sell fast and flash a new one in a few month....

Thats why im turning to indie gaming and try to invest/help where i can, screw big company, they wont get a cent from me unless i dont have a choice ( friend pressure to play X game in multiplayer ). And even before that i will try to find a free alternative. Now if everyone would just shut their god damn wallet it would make the company realise something, but sadly its a common and successfull practice for them, why change it? Specialy not for a small % of the gamer community.

[Neonivek]

In many ways what helped the indie market when it first started to pick up was that... frankly... they almost couldn't market towards the casual market dirrectly.

When they suddenly found they were able to, and that ordinary gamers were easily impressed, the indie market was stuffed, and still is so, with mediocre games that try to argue nostalgia while forgetting that the games they are trying to channel are at least 10 times better then they are.

The indie market in my oppinion Jocan... has pretty much fallen from grace and must be considered equal to non-indie games when it comes to quality.

Word is still out on Kickstarter though.

[Cthulhu]

90% of everything is crap.  In the big industry, that means I Shoot You Face 9.  In the indie world, it means the creator wanks all over the place.  There's good stuff on either side, if you can find it.

[Neonivek]

90% of everything is crap.  In the big industry, that means I Shoot You Face 9.  In the indie world, it means the creator wanks all over the place.  There's good stuff on either side, if you can find it.

The biggest concern isn't things that are bad but things that are mediocre... as well as how many things are not great. (Heck in the "Golden age of videogames" there were more terrible games being made then today)

Yet with casuals the best risk is no risk.

[alexandertnt]

90% of everything is crap.  In the big industry, that means I Shoot You Face 9.  In the indie world, it means the creator wanks all over the place.  There's good stuff on either side, if you can find it.

The biggest concern isn't things that are bad but things that are mediocre... as well as how many things are not great.

You could refactor the quote to say "90% of everything is mediocre or worse" then. I'm only focusing on the 10% and from my experience gaming since i was very young, that figure has not really changed. Most games are ignorable now, most were back then. Like back then, its the occasional piece of kick-ass that's fun and worth it. I do not see a lowering of the ratio of released games that interest me.

In many ways what helped the indie market when it first started to pick up was that... frankly... they almost couldn't market towards the casual market dirrectly.

When they suddenly found they were able to, and that ordinary gamers were easily impressed, the indie market was stuffed, and still is so, with mediocre games that try to argue nostalgia while forgetting that the games they are trying to channel are at least 10 times better then they are.

Indie games were virtually nonexistant not all that long ago. I have not really seen a decrease in availability of quality indie games. Infact, with the substantially increased availability of free tools for creating games with that allow indie developers to create games with less resources and knowledge (no more hacking together a new software 3D engine in C, just fire up UDK/Unity/XNA and most of it is there) at least from my perspective the indie scene has been continuing to improve.

[Neonivek]

I have not really seen a decrease in availability of quality indie games

In terms of technology... no there hasn't been a decrease at all.

[LoSboccacc]

Indie games were virtually nonexistant not all that long ago

The fact you didn't know about indie from the past doesn't make them nonexistant.

[Neonivek]

Indie games were virtually nonexistant not all that long ago

The fact you didn't know about indie from the past doesn't make them nonexistant.

In the popular consciousness maybe it could be argued.

Mind you the distinction of "Indie" didn't really exist for a while. An indie game was just "a game".

It is kinda why I dislike the "indie" distinction as a whole. It kinda gives games undue credit where none has been earned.

[LoSboccacc]

The small publishing distinction is pretty real and originates way back, in printing.

Nothing new nor radical about the indie term applied to games.

And the distinction is just a cutoff in pulisher size and carries no pejorative/ameliorative meaning per se; the fact that it is now used as a selling point is nothing new either: remember that period in thime when lot of scifi crap where published with the sellin point of being independent?

[Neonivek]

remember that period in thime when lot of scifi crap where published with the sellin point of being independent?

Not really... all the scifi games I know never advertised their "indie cred"

[LoSboccacc]

*scifi books I meant

Like http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urania_(magazine) in italy

[Neonivek]

Can you name a 90s or earlier indie game that was advertised as indie?

I consider the 2000s (though it is more like 2005) to be another wave of gaming.

80-90s being another (with mid 90s sort of being the dying point)

This isn't a counter point mind you. I would just like a frame of reference and if you cannot remember one I'll just take your word that one existed.

[LoSboccacc]

Activision comes to mind actively positioning itself as independent at start

[Leatra]

Activision comes to mind actively positioning itself as independent at start

It seems really funny when you say it now.

[LoSboccacc]

It was 30+ years ago