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Author Topic: You are a new God OOC thread.  (Read 109969 times)

GreatWyrmGold

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #660 on: January 28, 2013, 10:06:46 pm »

or why not a version that leaves soldiers or people in the eot marked instead? like cause them to hunt or persecute each other?  "what is that mark on your cheek?" I am thinking of how they would react to any signs of things being different.
Meh. Subtle control seems better than trying to cause arbitrary persecution. Something like this could be tweaked into a useful idea, though.

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also, we have refugees form the eot, we can get ideas for plans from them also, as they lived there much of their lives.
Possibly. How much would random people in the Empire know about their gods' plan(s)?
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gman8181

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #661 on: January 28, 2013, 10:19:59 pm »

or why not a version that leaves soldiers or people in the eot marked instead? like cause them to hunt or persecute each other?  "what is that mark on your cheek?" I am thinking of how they would react to any signs of things being different.

also, we have refugees form the eot, we can get ideas for plans from them also, as they lived there much of their lives.

We have more enemies than just the Empire of Tranquility.  I see no reason to restrict our creation to just them when we could just as easily make it controllable so it only affects those we want it to.  Getting ideas from the prisoners is an idea though.

To GreatWyrmGold:  On the topic of the fungi vs viruses, I suppose my post was a bit confusing.  I was trying to get across the point that a fungus is completely alive while it is a virus that is considered "not technically alive."  Viruses and Fungi are not the same thing and the creation we are discussing would be a fungus (which I like as it keeps with our theme and avoids unneeded confusion for as to how a virus could transform a person into a fungus).

To get into unneeded detail (just because I like biology): 
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I suppose if we were going to stretch things, I imagine a virus could theoretically be made to program a cell to develop into an organism fitting the definition of a fungi.  It's just a bit bit far fetched, and you guys didn't seem to like it when I suggested something somewhat similar before about mixing our plant soldiers and fungus spawn into one type of super soldier that can reproduce through either means.  I think you guys said something about plants and fungus being two completely separate organisms so it wouldn't work (even though our current fungus spawn originated from trees which are plants cough cough).  Also plants and fungi are more closely related than fungi and viruses.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #662 on: January 28, 2013, 10:29:42 pm »

Not quoting yet replying to gman: The "not technically alive" was applied only to the dormant stage, where the spore is basically a collection of macromolecules that could come to life later.

It doesn't bother with homeostasis, metabolize, grow, adapt, respond, or reproduce while in this dormancy. Once it awakes, it can do all those, but until then it doesn't. That's all but one of your criteria, and that one applies to cars and buildings as well as cats and bacteria.
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Rolepgeek

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #663 on: January 28, 2013, 10:38:57 pm »

Considering death magi isn't just killing living things, I'm pretty sure they could kill it. Regardless, even if they couldn't, it would die once it tried to awaken if inside their bodies.

I just don't think creating a gravemind, or making spies of this sort, fits in with our 'character' as established so far. As well, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be able to make it perfectly; something like that will cause a lot of symptoms, if only because a fungus has to have a 'host' to feed off of, and can't do everything animal cells can do. As well, I don't think one side of someone's liver will respond well to the other half effectively being eaten and turned into fungi-liver. Plus, in only two weeks? That's bloody fast for something like that.

Finally, in that dormant state, it is able to respond to stimuli, because otherwise how would it awaken? And if it doesn't maintain homeostasis, it's going to have a rough time not 'dying'.
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gman8181

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #664 on: January 28, 2013, 10:50:02 pm »

Okay, I'm just saying that what's being suggested has more in common with a virus than a fungi for the initial stages.  Don't get me wrong it's a cool idea, but now you guys are advocating the mixing of fungi and viruses whereas before you were against mixing plants and fungi, so I just figured I'd let you know.  I like both ideas despite not being entirely founded on real life science (which is okay with me because we're playing a god game).

RPG: I was just saying gravemind figuratively.  What I really want is a central intelligence that can control our fungus spawn, plant soldiers, etc from a distance and across the board without us having to do it ourselves.  It would also give us the ability to more directly interact with the world should we choose (by letting the plant intelligence speak what we want it to, fight with plant tentacles or something, breath spores and grow plant men).

Our new creation would be a mix between a parasite and a symbiotic organism, leaning more towards the former.  It would feed of the host but not in lethal ways.  The host would likely need to eat more to cope with having the organism inside stealing some nutrients but that doesn't mean our fungus would kill him.  There would likely be symptoms but I'm sure we can find ways to hide them.  Two weeks?  Our current fungus spawn infect and transform someone much quicker, and this is similar enough.  Realistic?  Maybe not but this is a god game and neither are floating castles, so I suppose we'll just have to suspend our disbelief a little bit for the sake of fun.

Edit: Also our character so far is a mix of all of us throwing out ideas and suggestions.  We are all in a sense part of Donut.  If he has chosen some options more before, it is only because those options had more support here (or in his unconscious if we're sticking with the metaphor) but it doesn't mean it wasn't part of his thinking.  If these ideas are getting more support now, it's just because Donut's thinking might be changing a bit just like real life people in this thread can start changing their perspectives.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 10:53:52 pm by gman8181 »
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Zavvnao

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #665 on: January 28, 2013, 11:07:34 pm »


Possibly. How much would random people in the Empire know about their gods' plan(s)?
[/quote]

now that I think, I realize I meant more the nation itself, and realized that is not as good as I realized now X3
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Rolepgeek

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #666 on: January 28, 2013, 11:12:24 pm »

I'm also pretty sure a God would be able to tell his follower has a growing fungus parasite in him. Particularly any god of death or order; having a thing like that grow in you is certainly not part of the order they will have made, and death probably lets them see life auras or something. I would think.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #667 on: January 28, 2013, 11:15:33 pm »

I am I the only one who thinks that...
a) creating a decease that will kill anyone, including innocent civilians isn't benevolent at all, moving us in a bad guys part of the spectre
b) such an action will lead to severe political disadvantages ( instead the benevolent god who fights a tyranny we become a massmurderer that order rightfully want to destroy)
c) enemy gods aren't idiots. Neither they are weaklings. They'll find a cure. Just in case if you forgot: they have orders of magnitude more mana
d) few citizens of the empire will consider to switch to the god, that killed their relatives with a plague and will fight against Donut till the end
e) consequences of bad rolls when making that  will be severe
f) protecting existing worshipers and getting new ones should have priority over making WMDs
g) we should lay low and not provoke the empire to divert more forces on us
?

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jaass

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #668 on: January 28, 2013, 11:20:40 pm »

Why don't we just give a symbiotic relation here if the person minds have certain barriers such as critical thinking and creative thinking. The virus will then remove these barrier allowing the user to see the world in a different lens.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #669 on: January 28, 2013, 11:26:30 pm »

Considering death magi isn't just killing living things, I'm pretty sure they could kill it.
When did they kill nonliving things?

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Regardless, even if they couldn't, it would die once it tried to awaken if inside their bodies.
The idea isn't to infect them, it's to prevent easy sterilization. If they want to make sure their grain is good, they'll pretty much have to burn in.

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I just don't think creating a gravemind, or making spies of this sort, fits in with our 'character' as established so far.
Why not? You've been saying this without explaining it.

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As well, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be able to make it perfectly; something like that will cause a lot of symptoms, if only because a fungus has to have a 'host' to feed off of, and can't do everything animal cells can do.
1. We have creatures that feed off of heat already. This isn't even flying around.
2. There probably would be symptoms past the "somewhat chilly and hungrier," but it should be possible to make the syndromes (like those) be well within normal variations until it's too late.
3. Magic. Our entire creaturebase is built on magic.

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As well, I don't think one side of someone's liver will respond well to the other half effectively being eaten and turned into fungi-liver. Plus, in only two weeks? That's bloody fast for something like that.
Again, I'm not sure if this would work IRL, but neither would shambling corpses infected with fungi or the Gold Dragons or Firejackets.

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Finally, in that dormant state, it is able to respond to stimuli, because otherwise how would it awaken? And if it doesn't maintain homeostasis, it's going to have a rough time not 'dying'.
Okay, that's one stimulus. And lots of critters can go into dormant states and be pretty much immune to  everything, expecially the single-celled ones. And those also apply to, say, a computer or a climate-controlled building. Neither of those is likely to be affected by death magic.

now that I think, I realize I meant more the nation itself, and realized that is not as good as I realized now X3
Well...why would random refugees know anything about the nation's plans, either?

I'm also pretty sure a God would be able to tell his follower has a growing fungus parasite in him. Particularly any god of death or order; having a thing like that grow in you is certainly not part of the order they will have made, and death probably lets them see life auras or something. I would think.
That would require them to actually pay attention. Sure, if we infected the High Priest or a Justicar, but Justicars' death auras would probably finish off the fungi once it awoke (or keep it dormant, perhaps), and once we get the fungus to the priests it's too late. The Empire's gods don't seem like the kid to perform routine physicals even if they only had a few hundred subjects. They have millions. It should be entirely simple for a subtle little disease with minimal symptoms to slip under the radar and get established.

I am I the only one who thinks that...
a) creating a decease that will kill anyone, including innocent civilians isn't benevolent at all, moving us in a bad guys part of the spectre
b) such an action will lead to severe political disadvantages ( instead the benevolent god who fights a tyranny we become a massmurderer that order rightfully want to destroy)
c) enemy gods aren't idiots. Neither they are weaklings. They'll find a cure. Just in case if you forgot: they have orders of magnitude more mana
d) few citizens of the empire will consider to switch to the god, that killed their relatives with a plague and will fight against Donut till the end
e) consequences of bad rolls when making that  will be severe
f) protecting existing worshipers and getting new ones should have priority over making WMDs
g) we should lay low and not provoke the empire to divert more forces on us
?
a. Why do you think I agreed to and expanded on the idea of controls?
b,c,d. How would it be traceable to us? Also, the Empire already hates our guts...and let's face it, their gods are complete monsters. We'd still be better for the people.
e. Probably, but we're a god of fire. I noted that the dormant spores could withstand extreme temperatures, but I'd imagine that the active fungus is a bit less resistant, and even if not Divine Fire should be able to heat up enough to burn it (assuming normal fire doesn't); if not, we really suck. Also, this would give us an opportunity to act as a hero.
f. Where are the two goals counteracting each other? After all, delaying an attack force by having several of them turn out to be Fungus Sleepers could save dozens if not hundreds of lives. (Probably dozens, if the attack force is headed to us; we don't have hundreds yet.)
g. That's why this is subtle. By the time we want to attack, we're able to attack with such devastating forces that the Empire of Tranquility would be massively weakened, if not outright cowed. Probably not cowed, but definitely weakened if we did it right.
h. Care to offer suggestions on how to improve it?

Why don't we just give a symbiotic relation here if the person minds have certain barriers such as critical thinking and creative thinking. The virus will then remove these barrier allowing the user to see the world in a different lens.
Not sure if you've noticed, but that's not much like what I suggested.
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racnor

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #670 on: January 28, 2013, 11:29:21 pm »

I am I the only one who thinks that...
a) creating a decease that will kill anyone, including innocent civilians isn't benevolent at all, moving us in a bad guys part of the spectre
b) such an action will lead to severe political disadvantages ( instead the benevolent god who fights a tyranny we become a massmurderer that order rightfully want to destroy)
c) enemy gods aren't idiots. Neither they are weaklings. They'll find a cure. Just in case if you forgot: they have orders of magnitude more mana
d) few citizens of the empire will consider to switch to the god, that killed their relatives with a plague and will fight against Donut till the end
e) consequences of bad rolls when making that  will be severe
f) protecting existing worshipers and getting new ones should have priority over making WMDs
g) we should lay low and not provoke the empire to divert more forces on us
?


I have to agree. This will ruin our image with everyone, and a god of death, ice, and order has plenty of ways to stop it. Either way, this will make us a true threat in their eyes, and we will face their true wrath, not a disgruntled underdeity.
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gman8181

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #671 on: January 28, 2013, 11:33:51 pm »

I suppose you glossed over the multiple posts in which it was stated that this creation would only affect the people we want it to?  Much the same way that our current fungus spawn which are practically the same except less subtle and less effective don't go and infect all the friendly people we know.  Also bad rolls will not affect us anymore than the poor roll we had when first making fungus spawn which we were able to correct shortly afterwards with no disadvantages at all except a minor mana expenditure.  What makes you think the empire will be able to detect this any more than they could detect the infiltrators currently being used by the other chaos godWe've been flat out told that they have not figured out a way to find the infiltrators and if anything, our spies will be even better.  This is not WMD, it does not cause !!!MASS DESTRUCTION!!!, it subtly infects people and allows us to use them as spies.

About the bold, I'm not trying to be annoying, I'm simply highlighting the most important points I've been trying to make that a lot of people with opposing view seem to be glossing over.

Edit: Sorry about any bad spelling or grammar, I'm pretty tired and for some reason I'm typing this instead of the work I need to do before I go to bed.  Can't help the procrastination.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 11:36:33 pm by gman8181 »
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #672 on: January 28, 2013, 11:43:43 pm »

Also, mind explaining how the gods of Ice, Order, and Death would stop it when A. the fungus was explicitly stated to resist extremes in temperature (in its dormant state, at least, and if they deep-freeze their followers once infection's started we don't lose much), B. it's also been suggested that said spores would also resist Death magic one way or another, C. Order has no particular way to stop such an infection, and D. there's no way the Empire checks all of their peasants for random infections?

Also, have you considered a rebuttal to my point that no one would be able to figure out that we were responsible?
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #673 on: January 28, 2013, 11:56:37 pm »

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How would it be traceable to us? 
I  find it very  likely that our creation have traces of our mana and our identify

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Also, the Empire already hates our guts...
It reminds me Castro.  USA hates our guts, let's nuke them. What can go wrong for Cuba?

Another example: In WW2 Nazis knew that the World hate them. Nazis knew that they'll lose all power in case of defeat. But they never used their arsenal of chemical weapons. Think why

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and let's face it, their gods are complete monsters. We'd still be better for the people.
Their gods are tyrans, not monsters. At least we have no hints of that. Genocide of mages? Bad, but there are many worse things.. like infecting innocents with deceases...
Stalin was bad, but a huge majority of citizens of Soviet Union chose to fight against Hitler, because he proved to be worse

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g. That's why this is subtle. By the time we want to attack, we're able to attack with such devastating forces that the Empire of Tranquility would be massively weakened, if not outright cowed. Probably not cowed, but definitely weakened if we did it right.
Yep, you hope that empire are the powerless idiots and will not act. That they can't spend  thousands of mana to stop that. That they have neither death, nor life gods...
Even if they are idiots... weakening them will not  save our asses. Because they will stay much, much, much stronger than us.





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Gentlefish

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #674 on: January 29, 2013, 12:54:52 am »

As for the spores, it's true. It'd affect innocents. We only want to target soldiers. I don't want to hurt innocent lives. Mostly because Life.

Also, Leto. We must raise him well.

And our alliance is GROWING. We are three strong! We can easily be four is Selena, and possibly five if we play our cards right with Maher.
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