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me

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me

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5 (10%)

help i'm trapped in a poll i don't know why i'm here i'm so scared someone please help

29 (58%)

me

6 (12%)

Total Members Voted: 50

[javierpwn]

MUST BECOME STAR WARRIOR DURING NEXT SPIRIT BATTLE!!

[freeformschooler]

Since you said that we need to be more tactical with combat, did we miss items or skills that would help with that? I ask because so far it seems like we have mostly a basic RPG arsenal, so we've been trying for basic heal and attack tactics, did we miss something, or do we just suck?

Secondary question: If we just suck, is there any chance to undo major screw ups we made? Like I said earlier at some point, so far this has been really unforgiving, do we have anything for back up? Even in the hardest RPGs you loaded back from your last save. What I'm trying to ask is: What if we really screw up? Everyone dies? The Warrens doesn't seem like something that would deserve that sort of ending.

Primary question: there was some minor mechanics stuff I think you guys haven't noticed yet.

1) If you move all the way across the screen and then attack something, it counts as a Long Range attack no matter what, so you'd be at a disadvantage using most weapons (-2 with Med, -4 with Melee). This is because range counts for all the movement made during the turn. HOWEVER! If you move to the other side of the the room from an enemy and then DON'T attack them, you don't make any rolls, but you put melee enemies at a guarenteed -4, and the Wisps at the very least at -2. I'll admit I haven't been perfect in following this rule, but it's been there for quite some time.
2) Tactical combat has always been an option. This can either make combat more or less deadly based on how it's invoked. Of course, it requires an infinitesimal amount of Charge to activate, but that's not something that's really relevant in a game mechanics way at this point in the game.
3) Power-ups, man, power-ups. This is the whole reason I allowed you guys access to the Scroll Shop and Reagent Shop. They can easily turn the tide of battle, and when combined with situational skills you craft in the Skill Tree, you've got a whole seperate arsenal.
4) This one hasn't been missed, but it's worth restating: there's power in numbers, man! Get more allies with diplomacy, but do note that enemies can be bribed, too. Heck, muscle them into it like you did with Cherish if you think it'll work. The only downfall is recruited enemies are not as loyal to you as a mercenary might be.
5) Don't forget that you can do an Arena fight to unlock Blue Rhapsody.

As for the second question: it's not possible. For the reasoning behind this, see my rant on "the Gamification of Suggestion Games." Allowing players to simply revert to an earlier stage would destroy the last five to ten pages of tense tactical debate entirely. There's a pretty huge in-universe reason, too, but I can't say yet.

Warrens will not end until a logical conclusion to the story has been reached or I drop it entirely. I'll always have a contingency plan in case the main POV character dies - even if it's one the players really hate, even if it's one I really hate having to do - but literally anyone other than that is permadead until you find some way to revive them (if you even do).

Even in the hardest RPGs you loaded back from your last save.

Not really.

Also this. Warrens isn't based on hard RPGs. It's based on roguelikes.

One does not simply reload in roguelikes.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Barring cheating.

...Shenanigans. Of course.

[Furtuka]

Is the game link system still going to be a thing?

[freeformschooler]

Is the game link system still going to be a thing?

Ehh. I got pretty mixed reactions on its poll, and I was already feeling ambivalent. I don't think it's something that I would be able to keep up if it got a lot of games mixed in, among other reasons.

[IronyOwl]

Is the game link system still going to be a thing?

Ehh. I got pretty mixed reactions on its poll, and I was already feeling ambivalent. I don't think it's something that I would be able to keep up if it got a lot of games mixed in, among other reasons.

Does this mean it's officially dead or just lukewarm?

Also, what do you use to make music?

Why would running to the other side of the room help? More specifically, why would it help more than exiting the room and getting fixed up?

I'd also like to ask why we should make Cherish a shotgun. Her ice spear works at Medium range, and deals Cold damage.

Are you suggesting the boss' attack range is the entirety of the map?

It'd help because we could beat the wisp boss, instead of trying to cheese-reset the encounter and hoping there's no side effects.

Current Cherish SP: 4.
Sp needed for healing: 3.
Health restored by heal: 2-5.

Alright, so a low roll by Cherish can't bring herself above unlucky one-shot range. This plan is starting to rely on a lot of things I'd rather not rely on.

Then again, so does running.

Even in the hardest RPGs you loaded back from your last save.

Not really.

In the hardest RPGs you try again and hope not to get ganked by your own vengeful ghost. I have no doubt our brutal and fully warranted demises are not mutually exclusive with Warrens continuing.

Ninja'd by confirmation.

I'd also like to ask why we should make Cherish a shotgun. Her ice spear works at Medium range, and deals Cold damage.

Well, for one thing we may be able to shoot up at the Big Wisp while it is airborn. This must be tested. For another, if we do get a new skill involving shaping ice or the like, we may be able to get that spear-trap idea to work (use ice to hold it up), so a back-up weapon would be handy.

Doesn't sound likely; I'm guessing off the screen means out of targeting range.

As for the other thing, I'm very dubious that lowering our MP is worth making a new spell solely for the purpose of holding up a lightning spear to beat this one boss we should totally be able to beat normally if we don't screw it up again. I mean really, that's like five steps to attack this one particular boss twice more if everything works like we want it to.

I mean, I'm all for experimentation and improving our arsenal, but not for niche stuff like this unless we have a very concrete, viable plan. Enchanting Riltia's spear to take out Proxxy was a good example of that.

[monk12]

I'll always have a contingency plan in case the main POV character dies - even if it's one the players really hate, even if it's one I really hate having to do

Oh god. We can't die, we'd be Al again.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Why would running to the other side of the room help? More specifically, why would it help more than exiting the room and getting fixed up?

I'd also like to ask why we should make Cherish a shotgun. Her ice spear works at Medium range, and deals Cold damage.

Are you suggesting the boss' attack range is the entirety of the map?
It'd help because we could beat the wisp boss, instead of trying to cheese-reset the encounter and hoping there's no side effects.

1. It could be. We don't know.
2. You don't get the goal. Why do you think I suggested we left Ciro in there? (The save-restoration idea wasn't mine, BTW. It came later.)

Alright, so a low roll by Cherish can't bring herself above unlucky one-shot range. This plan is starting to rely on a lot of things I'd rather not rely on.

Then again, so does running.

Like what, running requiring a roll?

I'll always have a contingency plan in case the main POV character dies - even if it's one the players really hate, even if it's one I really hate having to do

Oh god. We can't die, we'd be Al again.

We only went to Al because we selected him on the Astral Influx menu.
We'd probably be Cherish.

[freeformschooler]

Also, what do you use to make music?

EDIT: Oh hey, FFS, what program did you use for that song? I'd kill for a quality audio mixer (if it's free too, that'd be koolio.)

I used the VSTs from Tweakbench for the sounds and an old 'basic' version of FL studio I've been lugging around for years now LMMS is similar but free and would practically be an upgrade, so I'm working on learning it.

LMMS does funny things with its Piano Roll that I'm still trying to cope with. It also doesn't like many of my VSTs.

Also worth noting is that I make most of my song "segments" by playing around with a key on my dusty synthesizer until it sounds right. I haven't composed a full song this way (piano skills are kind of rusty), but I'm working on it.

[Brawler Mouse]

I understand the reasoning behind the permanence, but it seems like we're playing a roguelike as an immortal. Every time we would die we just get crippled more, but there's no way to use the knowledge from our mistakes. We're just stuck failing continuously and wishing we could have a chance to get back to scratch. The scars from our failures just feel crippling to any future achievement. I don't know, I probably just don't understand, but with roguelikes; I always felt that no matter how you died or where, the lesson from that mistake could help you in a future run. But that's not an option here, unless we start another cycle somehow?

[monk12]

I'll always have a contingency plan in case the main POV character dies - even if it's one the players really hate, even if it's one I really hate having to do

Oh god. We can't die, we'd be Al again.

We only went to Al because we selected him on the Astral Influx menu.
We'd probably be Cherish.

I'm joking, predicting what the players would hate most on the premise that the most hated person in the Warrens is Al. Though he's had some character development, and personally I still liked him before that.

If you knew that and were suggesting that Cherish would be the more hated/annoying alternative, I call fie on thee! I like Cherish (admittedly for reasons not adequately explored. Her current angreh face does make me lol though.)

[GreatWyrmGold]

That's not what I was trying to say, no.

I was trying to suggest, somewhat humorously, that we would become Cherish. And there is merit--she's the only non-Target character we've become without the Astral Influx, IIRC.

[IronyOwl]

Also, what do you use to make music?

EDIT: Oh hey, FFS, what program did you use for that song? I'd kill for a quality audio mixer (if it's free too, that'd be koolio.)

I used the VSTs from Tweakbench for the sounds and an old 'basic' version of FL studio I've been lugging around for years now LMMS is similar but free and would practically be an upgrade, so I'm working on learning it.

LMMS does funny things with its Piano Roll that I'm still trying to cope with. It also doesn't like many of my VSTs.

Also worth noting is that I make most of my song "segments" by playing around with a key on my dusty synthesizer until it sounds right. I haven't composed a full song this way (piano skills are kind of rusty), but I'm working on it.

Ah, thanks. I was pretty sure it'd come up before, but I had no idea how to go about searching for it.

I'm not sure how to take you dodging my other question. I guess "I'm not sure yet either?"

Why would running to the other side of the room help? More specifically, why would it help more than exiting the room and getting fixed up?

I'd also like to ask why we should make Cherish a shotgun. Her ice spear works at Medium range, and deals Cold damage.

Are you suggesting the boss' attack range is the entirety of the map?
It'd help because we could beat the wisp boss, instead of trying to cheese-reset the encounter and hoping there's no side effects.

1. It could be. We don't know.
2. You don't get the goal. Why do you think I suggested we left Ciro in there? (The save-restoration idea wasn't mine, BTW. It came later.)

1. If so, it'd probably be an even worse range penalty than it has currently (and the boss might be less likely to attack far not-attacking combatants anyway). While that's not something I'd like to count on, its odds of helping are pretty damned high.

2. If it's not to reset the encounter and try again, and it's not to try to cheese ourselves to immortality via whacking the restore point over and over again, I have no idea.

Alright, so a low roll by Cherish can't bring herself above unlucky one-shot range. This plan is starting to rely on a lot of things I'd rather not rely on.

Then again, so does running.

Like what, running requiring a roll?

Or the boss following us, or the boss spawning with more goons when we return, or the level changing and rendering us unable to get back to the restore point without running into trouble.

Again, I could be wrong, but I tend to be wary of any plan that promises to let us acquire loot and achieve objectives with zero risk or cost involved, like auto-fleeing a battle at any time, restoring to full, and then trying it again at our leisure.

I understand the reasoning behind the permanence, but it seems like we're playing a roguelike as an immortal. Every time we would die we just get crippled more, but there's no way to use the knowledge from our mistakes. We're just stuck failing continuously and wishing we could have a chance to get back to scratch. The scars from our failures just feel crippling to any future achievement. I don't know, I probably just don't understand, but with roguelikes; I always felt that no matter how you died or where, the lesson from that mistake could help you in a future run. But that's not an option here, unless we start another cycle somehow?

?

I don't get this at all. We're waaaaaaay more awesome and haven't lost all that much compared to where we were.

I mean, we're not a male fighter any more, if that's a loss. We couldn't save Yaos and we have no idea why, that's true. This whole Al/Riltia/Cherish business can still end badly. Slog's resurrection is hitting some minor No Idea What The Fuck We're Doing snags, and will likely continue to do so until Al tells us how it's done.

But other than that, what scars have we acquired? And possibly more importantly, did we deserve them or not?

[freeformschooler]

I understand the reasoning behind the permanence, but it seems like we're playing a roguelike as an immortal. Every time we would die we just get crippled more, but there's no way to use the knowledge from our mistakes. We're just stuck failing continuously and wishing we could have a chance to get back to scratch. The scars from our failures just feel crippling to any future achievement. I don't know, I probably just don't understand, but with roguelikes; I always felt that no matter how you died or where, the lesson from that mistake could help you in a future run. But that's not an option here, unless we start another cycle somehow?

Are you seriously saying you HAVEN'T learned how to better abuse the game and survive since the last time the POV character died? Because there is a million ways to use the game mechanics that have been revealed and discovered to keep everyone alive now.

There is a lesson in every deadly mistake in Warrens, and I'm not just talking about the one POV death. Slog's death was probably the biggest lesson: when you have a way to protect yourself, use it (that's literally the only reason he died. No one suggested using his defensive mechanism, AKA the hard hat).

[GreatWyrmGold]

Why would running to the other side of the room help? More specifically, why would it help more than exiting the room and getting fixed up?

I'd also like to ask why we should make Cherish a shotgun. Her ice spear works at Medium range, and deals Cold damage.

Are you suggesting the boss' attack range is the entirety of the map?
It'd help because we could beat the wisp boss, instead of trying to cheese-reset the encounter and hoping there's no side effects.

1. It could be. We don't know.
2. You don't get the goal. Why do you think I suggested we left Ciro in there? (The save-restoration idea wasn't mine, BTW. It came later.)

1. If so, it'd probably be an even worse range penalty than it has currently (and the boss might be less likely to attack far not-attacking combatants anyway). While that's not something I'd like to count on, its odds of helping are pretty damned high.
2. If it's not to reset the encounter and try again, and it's not to try to cheese ourselves to immortality via whacking the restore point over and over again, I have no idea.

1. They also have other ranged attacks. Besides, I figure even Wisps understand the basic concept of "Making the enemies die is good"...especially since Cherish, our healer, is also low on HP.
2. It was to let Cherish and Goom-Bess recover without losing our progress and while still dealing damage.

Alright, so a low roll by Cherish can't bring herself above unlucky one-shot range. This plan is starting to rely on a lot of things I'd rather not rely on.
Then again, so does running.

Like what, running requiring a roll?

Or the boss following us, or the boss spawning with more goons when we return, or the level changing and rendering us unable to get back to the restore point without running into trouble.

1. I don't think the boss can even fit through the door. And if so, so what? It has shown no ability to move faster than us--or at all without leaping--and so we could easily escape it/lose it.
2. Any option but staying and fighting has that.

Again, I could be wrong, but I tend to be wary of any plan that promises to let us acquire loot and achieve objectives with zero risk or cost involved, like auto-fleeing a battle at any time, restoring to full, and then trying it again at our leisure.

It's got a better chance of success than attacking when we're weak.
Look at it this way: A damaged party of adventurers comes across a strong party of monsters. They could return to the Pool of Healing earlier in the cave, or fight them now. Which should they choose?