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[Grendus]

I am entirely against making dispersion a non-issue. In-game distances are shrunk by necessity, and if we attempted to have firearms duplicate their performance to-the-T in-game, they would be the only thing to do so. Our sight range is shrunk, our worldspace is shrunk, and time dilation is going on. They are perfectly fine as is- you want to hit something far away? Use an accurate gun. You're only concerned about things within 8 tiles? A shotgun is viable. You push shotgun range out to it's RL equivalent, and it would be viable for 5/6 of the viewable area. Not. Good. For. Gameplay.

The current system has both skill and inherent weapon dispersion as factors that effect the gameplay. This is a good thing.

The problem is, even a good rifle tends to start missing at 8 tiles. Doesn't matter how accurate your gun us, once you get 10 tiles away you simply start missing fairly consistantly. Even with time and space dilation, a good rifle should not start missing at 10 tiles, but currently they do. To put it in perspective, imagine you were standing at one end of your house and shooting a target at the other end of your house. The current dispersion dictates that many of your shots would miss even if your gun was always pointed directly at the target because that human sized target you're shooting at is beyond the accuracy tolerances of the gun. Had guns really been that inaccurate, we never would have started using them.

[GlyphGryph]

The point of dispersion is in many ways to account for actual differences in weapon quality.

It's not simply enough to be amazingly good - it's important that your equipment matter as well! If there is a problem, it isn't so much with the concept of dispersion, but that the dispersion value for what is supposed to be top tier equipment is simply too high. That's just a bit of a balance issue.

But a homemade pipe gun or musket should NOT be as accurate as a professional pistol, and something like dispersion is the only way to really make that the case.

[Grendus]

Which is fine. Homemade weapons should be inaccurate, at least the ones that are crafted with limited skill (some of the advanced ones I could see an argument for being more accurate, but once you have that range of tools and equipment you've earned the right to craft the good stuff). We're talking about the military and civilian grade firearms you can find on bodies and in stores.

In other news, my Otaku is now lightly furred. Convenient (this lab is FREEZING) and in character. I like it.

[Aseaheru]

Heres an idea, as you get higher in skill things that require less levels in that skill than you have when made have a chance to become buffed in some way. likewise, there should be a chance for a debuff if you are the required level but only just. Similarry, use of items like makeshift welders, rocks or stone hammers should increase the chance for debuffs and some items should have inherent chances for them (CBMs, stone pots)

[Sharp]

I can totally understand the necessity of dispersion, however it does make a large majority of firearms worthless. It's not so much a realism factor but a gameplay issue, what is the point of using rifles? They are inaccurate at ranges > 10 tiles, are fairly bulky when compared with most other firearms, can get scarce in ammo etc... right now I feel the best way to build your player is melee guy with a hand-cannon for dealing with robots and heavy armoured foes, there really isn't a way you can play a gunfighter effectively seeing as it's noisy and you can't dispatch zombies until they get close so when you have to reload your pretty screwed.

I debug'd another character to 40 all skills, with a reflex recurve bow and metal arrows he was able to hit fairly reliably at 10 tiles and sometimes at ranges greater against zombies and zombie kids.
With a TDI Vector though it was 12 tiles before landing a shot against a zombie hulk (biggest target) and 13 tiles against a mutant and only hitting reliably at <12 tiles. This is with single shot mode and waiting for recoil to go away and 40 skill character.

Given how gunfire is generally more noisier then melee combat and archery it should be at least be able to dispatch zombies without requiring them to be at point blank range when your using pistols or rifles.

[Girlinhat]

I'm in favor of having some inaccuracy in all weapons, but when bows hit better than rifles, something is wrong.

[weegth]

Can bullets ricochet off walls? I was just killed at the entrance of military bunker by a turret which couldn't possibly see me.

[sackhead]

just make a tile 20 meters across and pretend the player needs a fuckton of personal space

this would mean my car is 200 m wide.... im in

[Grendus]

Finished with the lab, near as I can tell. I didn't find anything interesting on the bottom floor, but I mostly got bored. Maybe I'll go back. Right now, I want to get my electronics skill up so I can install the Integrated Tool Set I found.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

That's not the best comparison, you're using a vector- that's a close-range gun. It has an inherent dispersion of 7, and it's firing a round (.45) whose lowest dispersion is 10. The max range is 18.

Contrast with a proper long-range gun-
Remington 700.
Inherent dispersion: 1
Max ammo dispersion: 2
Max range:90


And some AR ammo stats:
5.56 (m16)
Disp: ~5
Range:38

7.62 (AK)
Disp: ~12
Range: 30

.308 (scar-H)
Disp: ~0
Range:~70


Tweaking can always be done, but there's a difference between guns & ammo, and it's supposed to be felt.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Reflex Recurve bow:
Disp: 8
Range:+18
Heavy wooden arrows:
Disp: 4
Range: 8

Keep in mind, that bow takes 12 strength to fire, some decent crafting skills to make, and it'll never match the performance of a scar-H

[BurnedToast]

I've noticed I can now make a "tainted tornado" which consists of vodka, whisky, rum, and... tainted meat.

Why would I ever want to do that, and why would I ever want to drink it if I did make it? it's only got 10 nutrition in exchange for -20 quench and -40 enjoyment. Does it cause mutations or something?

Also, while trying to keep myself happy riding out my nicotine addiction, I gained an alcohol addiction. So that's nice, good times ahead.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Yep, sounds like a mutations item.

Ha. Well you know what helps with alcohol addiction? Nicotine! Mmm, sweet sweet cigars!

[MrWiggles]

So hows dat mac version?

[scrdest]

Yep, sounds like a mutations item.

Ha. Well you know what helps with alcohol addiction? Nicotine! Mmm, sweet sweet cigars!

I noticed that item too. It was added in 0.8. Since it has -40 enjoyment, and takes normal alcohol to make, the only real possibility is cheap mutagen. Will test, though.

EDIT: Ayup, it's a mutagen that does not always work, kinda like arms/legs/fetuses.

[Grendus]

Question: Does acid rain damage vehicles? I pulled my scooter under cover just in case, but I was just wondering if I was being paranoid or if it was a real concern.