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[Nienhaus]

So I got in a crash with my quad bike that have a V8 in it.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I was only going around 150 mph

[Blaze]

♪ Usagi, Usagi nani wo mite haneru? ♪

Should've put on that seat belt.

[Nienhaus]

♪ Usagi, Usagi nani wo mite haneru? ♪

Should've put on that seat belt.

Who has a seat belt on a quad bike, how would that even work.

[Sharp]

Do keep in mind that in recent versions, perception is reversed - it gives a penalty when low, but normal when high.  Having low perception may incur a hard penalty that skills cannot overcome.

I think perception was 9 or 10 so not that low a penalty, it doesn't really matter though, like I'm saying I debug'd so firearms and handgun (and all skills) were something like 30-40, the piddly -1 or -3 penalty should be outweighed by the extremely high accuracy bonus guns and firearms gives. I did also test it at lvl 10 on those skills as well.

It might be the dispersion, I wasn't aware if there was any code change from how ranged weapons worked before, I thought dispersion replaced accuracy to try and clarify of what happens as some people were confused so it was just a cosmetic change. If there was an actual change though then that might be an issue somewhere.

--

After doing a bit of testing it really might be a change in the code, I have not actually compared the code or looked at that part of it but just playing around with the original Cataclysm and having 10 skill on guns even with 4 perception character was still able to hit shots near max range with weapons with accuracy of 80 (so dispersion 20 I believe), only times headshots didn't occur was due to lots of recoil (i think char had strength of 6 or something which affects recoil iirc). So either dispersion isn't working correctly or skills relating to guns aren't applying the bonuses to hit.

[Imp]

Well, honestly name something that isn't good for Zombbq.

Swimming pools

You just have to remove all that annoying water first.

And replace it with gasoline?  Cause... cement ain't so flammable either.

[Grendus]

Bah, kids these days aren't even willing to drain a pool and refill it with something flammable for a zombbq. Back in my day, we had to make our own zombbq. And we didn't have any sissy molotovs or flamethrowers either, we had to light every fire ourselves by hand. And we LIKED it!

[Girlinhat]

Do keep in mind that in recent versions, perception is reversed - it gives a penalty when low, but normal when high.  Having low perception may incur a hard penalty that skills cannot overcome.

I think perception was 9 or 10 so not that low a penalty, it doesn't really matter though, like I'm saying I debug'd so firearms and handgun (and all skills) were something like 30-40, the piddly -1 or -3 penalty should be outweighed by the extremely high accuracy bonus guns and firearms gives. I did also test it at lvl 10 on those skills as well.

I was meaning to say it was a completely post-math penalty.  Like, You get a +40 for skill, a -2 for weapon dispersion, and a -5 for range, so you've still got a +32, which determines how closely you're aiming, and decides you are aiming directly at the target.  Then the perception penalty is applied, so even though you're aiming directly it still incurs a variance just after everything else.

More likely to be weapon accuracy, in that case though.  It's probably modeled something like your skill +/- perception determines which tile you aim at (or what number of degrees you aim off) and then the weapon's random accuracy roll pushes it in one direction or another.  So even though you're pointing the gun perfectly, the bullets simply don't fly straight enough.  In that case it's a matter of sniper mods and ammo.

[MrWiggles]

update on da mac port?

[i2amroy]

update on da mac port?

I've handd it off to a couple of people who have much more experience than I do at compiling mac versions. You can sort-of follow their progress here.

I was meaning to say it was a completely post-math penalty.  Like, You get a +40 for skill, a -2 for weapon dispersion, and a -5 for range, so you've still got a +32, which determines how closely you're aiming, and decides you are aiming directly at the target.  Then the perception penalty is applied, so even though you're aiming directly it still incurs a variance just after everything else.

Actually any perception penalty is applied right at the same time as everything else. I mean the game literally does [DEX modifier + PER modifier + encumbrence modifier + recoil effects + gun dispersion + ammo dispersion]. Also dispersion and all of the other penalties are in quarter-degrees, not degrees.

I will say that what weapon/ammo you are wielding is the thing that now determines the cap, not your skill. This means that skills that are extremely high (over about 8-9) don't make you shoot any better, because you are limited by the weapon's physical ability to shoot accurately. No more can you warp the universe to make your blowgun hit dead on at 1000 yards just by being an extremely skilled marksman.

[Kaitol]

But headshotting something with a blowgun from 1000 yards is so much fun.

Besides, what other point is there to training up good weapon skills if they have no impact at high levels?

Mechanics < Fun

[i2amroy]

But headshotting something with a blowgun from 1000 yards is so much fun.

Besides, what other point is there to training up good weapon skills if they have no impact at high levels?

Mechanics < Fun

The balance "cap" that's been defined for dev work is approximately level 10 as a "professional level, needs work/practice fairly often to maintain". So once you go over that we're a little less worried about skills having to do more than just provide a buffer against penalties.

[BurnedToast]

Modern firearms are really, really accurate though. Snipers have confirmed kills at over 2 kilometers - given the previously mentioned ~1 m per square that you yourself mentioned, that's 2000 tiles!

For assault rifles, the m16's effective range is 550m (ak-47 less accurate but not that much less).

Realistically, at the practically point-blank range 99% of combat in cataclysm takes place at, pretty much all guns should be effectively 100% accurate and the only thing determining if you hit or miss is the user's skill.

Sure, gameplay > realism and the game probably does not even keep track of monsters 2000 tiles away and it would be silly if you could shoot that far anyway.. but saying skill stops mattering because of mechanical inaccuracy in the weapon at like 10 meters is just absurd. Even unrifled civil war muskets using crappy homemade ball ammo were accurate to around 90 - 140 meters.

[miauw62]

Well, honestly name something that isn't good for Zombbq.

Swimming pools

You just have to remove all that annoying water first.

And replace it with gasoline?  Cause... cement ain't so flammable either.

Chlorine Trifluoride. That is all.

[Farce]

I imagine a swimming pool would make a handy little pit for burning the dead, all pre-dug out and whatnot.

[Tilla]

Modern firearms are really, really accurate though. Snipers have confirmed kills at over 2 kilometers - given the previously mentioned  (by you) ~1 m per square that you yourself mentioned, that's 2000 tiles!

For assault rifles, the m16's effective range is 550m (ak-47 less accurate but not that much less).

Realistically, at the practically point-blank range 99% of combat in cataclysm takes place at, pretty much all guns should be effectively 100% accurate and the only thing determining if you hit or miss is the user's skill.

Sure, gameplay > realism and the game probably does not even keep track of monsters 2000 tiles away and it would be silly if you could shoot that far anyway.. but saying skill stops mattering because of mechanical inaccuracy in the weapon at like 10 meters is just absurd. Even unrifled civil war muskets using crappy homemade ball ammo were accurate to around 90 - 140 meters.

This is a pretty shallow analysis of gun accuracy.  Especially in panicked and adrenaline packed situations, missing a target at relatively close range is pretty easy. There's a million factors like weather, your own hand strength, and so many others.