Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Gervassen]

It varied from fortifications, simpler ones with a simple keep and some walls obviously did not.  However, castles that mixed manors in as part of their fortification could, depending on the era.  It may not be definite, and the count likely wouldn't give us any if we asked-but if the abbey won't let us acquire books in some way, then the duke may have a collection we could get copied.  However, maybe this is an era prior to collection of books by major nobles and the maintaining of personal libraries.

To frame this properly, potentially as few as 10% of the people in England of the 1500s were literate. And that's getting into the Renaissance era, after the widespread acceptance of the English vernacular as a written medium and the rise of cities as a place for educated commoners. It would be easy to overstate how many nobles are literate in an earlier time period.

It's probable from the gluttonous and self-indulgent behaviour of the Count that he simply never learnt to read at all. The Duke seems an enlightened and serious man, however, so he probably does have a decent library.

[kaian-a-coel]

Books are not necessary to a medieval school. We can have something mostly practical, with kids and people learning (roughly) about every profession in our fief (what it's like to be a smith, a merchant, a soldier, a potter, etc...), learn to count (sticks and pebbles should do), and done, school.

[10ebbor10]

Also, shieldwalls were technically proven superior to "Modern" tactics during the norman invasion of england.  The norman infantry, archers, and calvary were completely neutralized by the proper saxon shieldwall.  The calvary themselves were about as useful as water balloons really.  The reason the normans won that battle was because several of their troops began routing, and the....saxons broke ranks and gave a cry charging.  And ended up in a scattered loose formation, while the Norman's had fully ready heavy calvary backed by light calvary sitting around wishing they were useful.  If not for that break of discipline, good old William the Conquerer would have lost the key battle for england.

Also, even in dark ages, throwing weapons weren't specifically to kill an enemy formation.  England during the 7th century, used the shieldwall.  They skirmished with javelins and thrown weapons prior to battle-the innitial skirmishing was to break up an enemy formation prior to the charge.  The things rarely did damage, but could cause disorder and panic which made them less resilient against the following charge.

Sadly, this games take place in the latter part of the medieval ages (IIRC), so that means that those things happened at least 600-300 prior. The real reason that shield walls were abandonned is not that they were ineffective, but that polearm(halberdier) equiped troops were better. After all, it's rather problematic to use a twohanded weapon, while carrying a giant tower shield.

[Soulbourne]

That's why saxon shieldwalls relied on spears and round shields, however, a spear isn't innately two handed anyways.  Vikings used long axes, but we're far from vikings whatever our area, and if we were gonna use there tech a longboat is so much cooler than a feluca.

However, from some stuff he said, I would expect it to be more high middle ages.  Such as the factory-he said we lacked the technology, and would need impressively smart individuals.  Too me, that means that the tech doesn't exist yet, and that we'd need to somehow research it ourselves.  Maybe not the hardest thing, it's more being innovative which isn't always easy.  This is still after the saxon-norman conflicts quite a ways though.

The point about throwing weapons was more that even in the dark ages, it didn't cause much death.  It was simply to create chaos and disorder, so your superior order could smash them easier.

[Gervassen]

If I had to date this story to a real time period, I would say 1300. It's before longbows became an acknowledged phenomenon, because when we fought the rebellion against the Count, this was the Count's battle plan:

"Well, as of now, given that we don't know their exact disposition, we will march in force to their land. We will ask for their surrender. If they fail to provide it, we will deploy for battle. Archers will loose a few volleys, light cavalry will keep them penned in, then heavy cavalry will charge. Spears will protect the archers, while our other foot will advance behind the heavy cavalry charge to mop them up."

That's a rather common battle plan straight out of the 1200s right there. Adequate enough for English troops before Bannockburn made them reconsider cavalry charges, for sure. After the Battle of Dupplin Moor in 1332 showed how archers could mow down a Scottish schiltron, longbows were officially on the scene as a major asset in English military planning, and would continue to be the leading star for a hundred years.

As a result, I place this story somewhere before the equivalent lesson of a Bannockburn event.

Books are not necessary to a medieval school. We can have something mostly practical, with kids and people learning (roughly) about every profession in our fief (what it's like to be a smith, a merchant, a soldier, a potter, etc...), learn to count (sticks and pebbles should do), and done, school.

Excellent point. We can start schooling the young ones right away with basic arithmetic and learning the sounds and shapes of the alphabet on wax tablets. We just need to find a somewhat clever peasant to act as a schoolmaster and get the children reciting their lessons in a one-room schoolhouse. That's state-of-the-art education up until the 1800s. We wouldn't ever give schoolchildren costly books, anyway.

The library itself is more for Marna right now, and for recruiting educated burghers later on. Since she has probably already read extensively from her father's collection, we ought to copy some new books from the Abbey.

[tryrar]

So, I got a little lost with the arguments here, can anyone sum up what we've decided?

[GreatWyrmGold]

Fortune favors the brave. Tally-ho!

No, fortune favors those who make their own luck. Aka, the smart.

Not to rattle your cage, but Udil in the Pantheon thread is a good example of boldness beating cleverly-planned moves by sheer brute impetuosity.  He's quite the magnificient bastard.

Huh?
He killed Neyravah when his player lacked the ability to counter-attack due to not being present, one of the few times in recent history where said player has been absent for an extended period of time. (Damn you 1.7 Days in Infamy!)
He failed to kill Az-Sho due to tactical and strategic idiocy, and now runs to Thaneos and others in hopes of not dying.
As a demigod ruling essentially all dwarves, he has the power to overcome anything with brute force.
Aside from combining with sheer luck in Neyravah's case, boldness had nothing to do with his successes and everything to do with the failure that destroyed his dwarves before his ecological incompetence could.

...Sadly I have no comment on anything directly related to this game.

[Maldevious]

Please keep all discussion related to other games in another thread, thank you. And, for ease of my comprehension, please put all actual suggestions in bold from now on, so I can make out what is a suggestion and what is just a discussion or debate...

Year 5, January

You spend January plotting what to do about these camps. Part of you wishes to go investigate yourself, but you ultimately decide that discretion is the better part of valor, and you send out mixed patrols of Rangers and Archers into the snow to find out what exactly is going on.

As those patrols are sent out, you send a messenger to Hemswood Abbey, inquiring about purchasing old books from them. After a week, you get a note in return, saying that they are ammenable to not only sending you books that are poorly copied or otherwise unusable for their purposes, but they also are willing to base one of their scribes in your town. You heartily agree, and are told that he will be arriving when the weather breaks.

You also decide that you will open a school for children in the spring, offering lessons in basic counting, letters, and different jobs that are available in your lands. Mr. Wood says that he will build the building when the snow melts, and you are hopeful that the scribe can teach a lesson or two between his other work.

By the end of the month, your men report having encountered several bands of men, usually in groups of no more than five. These men seem to be quite efficient woodsmen, and generally slipped away before your men could close on them.

However, late in January, you find that an armed encounter took place. A group of the interlopers were surprised near the mines, and attacked your Rangers with sword and staff rather than flee. The fight was swift, and your men took no casualties. They captured one man alive, and they also captured a map detailing the holdings on your lands, with a particular attention to detail surrounding the mines. There is also a focus on the barracks area, which is correctly noted as being unfortified.

The prisoner quickly breaks and tells you that he was employed by a certain wool merchant you are all too familiar with. He tells a tale of how his sister disappeared three months ago, and he was approached by someone representing the merchant and told that, unless he scouted out your lands completely and thoroughly, his sister would be killed.

He was told to resist capture, but avoid conflict if possible. He begs for his life, asking clemency.

Fin and Alan are worried by these developments, and try to station more guards in key areas, although the biting weather makes an attack unlikely.

February calls, and with it your 23rd birthday. However, this information is a poor present. What will you do?

Spoiler: "Sir Samuel Stone" (click to show/hide)

Age: 22 (February birthday)
Good Health
Elite Fitness
Literate
Natural Archer
Fine Man of the People
Above Average Swordswman
Above Average Rider
Above Average Woodsman
Average Etiquette
Average Lancer
Novice Legal Mind
Novice Shield User
Poor Rhetoric

Spoiler: "Equipment and Possessions" (click to show/hide)

Weapons
Militia-grade Short Sword
Fine Longsword
Iron Lance

Armor
Mail Shirt
Brigandine Armor
Fur cloak and leggings
Iron Shield

Transport
Felucca
Mottled Grey Hunter

Housing and Misc.
Brick and Lumber Manor
Falconry Mews
Average Clothing
Silver Sun Necklace with Gold Pendant
Bound New Testament
Book of Laws
Cask of Beer
Stone Weights

Spoiler: "Feroshire (Capital Thown)" (click to show/hide)

Treasury - Low
171 Citizens

Services and Housing
Nice Communal Housing
Mix of Wood and Brick Housing
Nice Inn
Small Courthouse
Small School and Library (to be built in spring)

Defense
Wooden Palisade

Trade and Travel
Brick Roads
Medium Brick Paved Market
Modest dockyard
Two-way Ferry

Industry
Large Clayworks
Smokehouse
Watermill (Lumber Mill and Grindstone)
Growing Shipyard
Brewery
Stables - Large herd of horses
Small Furniture Workshop

Spoiler: "Your Land" (click to show/hide)

Medium (5x city size) population (Loyal)
River Parlon (fertile banks on both sides, light forest to the north)

Farming
Nice parcel farms south of the river (two plantings per season)
Fine Communal Farm
Small Vineyard

Defense
Average Barracks, Armory, and Obstacle Course with Furnaces and Forges
Jousting practice field

Trade and Travel
Gravel Roads
Medium Warehouse

Industry
Small Fishing Fleet
Mines north of river (silver, copper, gold, iron, gems)
   * Small community of miners in communal houses

Misc.
Trash Pit
Graveyard

Spoiler: "Your Forces" (click to show/hide)

Ranged - Longbows, iron short swords, fur armor, mounts
Five veteran Archers
Five regular Rangers
Ten regular Archers
Five green Rangers

Melee - Iron halberds, iron brigandine armor, iron short swords, mounts
Twenty green Halberdiers

Reserve - Iron short swords, fur armor, wooden shields
Ten green Watchmen
Mandatory Bow or Halberd Training for Able-bodied Men

Spoiler: "Your people" (click to show/hide)

Skilled Potters
Above Average Jewelers
Above Average Trappers
Journeymen Miners
Journeymen Metalworkers
Journeymen Masons
Journeymen Furniture Builders
Novice Horse Breeders
Novice Weaponsmiths
Novice Armorers

Spoiler: "Nearby" (click to show/hide)

Market Town of Carshire - One day's ride on main road
Folesden - Land of Count Foles - Downstream
   * Curbiston - County Seat of Folesden
Land of Sir Denton - Upstream
Land of Sir Percival - Adjacent to Sir Denton's land, across the river
Hemswood Abbey - Far Upstream - Known for dark beer
Lands of Duke Erran - Across the river to the north - Used for hunting

Spoiler: "Known Lords by Rank and Relationship" (click to show/hide)

King Edward Geronos IV, Lord of the Falls, Keeper of the Flame, Seer of the Dawn - Vaguely remembered

Duke Erran - Pleasant

Count Aaron Foles - Your Liege Lord - An angry drunkard - Suspicious
Count Gorgan - A fine fighter - Introduced
Count Zanders - Introduced

Sir Blake Denton - Friendly
Sir Alan Percival - Friendly
Sir Uriel Lope - Count's Marshall - Unsure
Sir Melvin - Lady Marna's brother, Duke Erran's nephew - Polite
Sir Ivanson - A renowned jouster - Introduced

Lady Marna - Infatuated

Spoiler: "Important Citizens by Occupation" (click to show/hide)

Alan Alanson - Squire, Captain of the Watch
Fin - Captain of the Militia
William Dent - Steward, Mayor
Victor Irlof - Master of the Market, Treasurer
Curtis Stumpf - Miner, Councilman
Ian Wood - Carpenter, Councilman
Marge Kannity - Brewer

Shipwright
Architect
Armorer
Weaponsmith
Horse Breeder
Scribe (in spring)

[tryrar]

Ok, this in unacceptable. This wool merchant has gone too far, so we need to do something about this.

In accordance with the new rule, my suggestions in bold:

1) Give clemency to our new prisoner on the condition that he tells us EVERYTHING that might help us, including anything about the disappearance of his sister.

2)As soon as weather permits, FORTIFY THE BARRACKS AT THE MINES

3) Contact the Rat and see if he can locate the hostage(s) the wool merchant is keeping, and see if we can arrange a rescue.

4)Regardless of if 3 is successful, I think it's time we arranged a quiet assassination of the guy. We won't tolerate this anymore

[GreatWyrmGold]

Udil was being used as a metaphor. I was deconstructing the metaphor. Moving on...

Yay, books soon! Yay, school shortly after that!

We should see if the Rat can find any dirt linking the merchant and the Count, and ask the prisoner if he knows why he was supposed to scout the land. And, of course, release him once he's finished telling us all he can--he seems harmless enough.

Ninja'd:

Ok, this in unacceptable. This wool merchant has gone too far, so we need to do something about this.
In accordance with the new rule, my suggestions in bold:
1) Give clemency to our new prisoner on the condition that he tells us EVERYTHING that might help us, including anything about the disappearance of his sister.
2)As soon as weather permits, FORTIFY THE BARRACKS AT THE MINES
3) Contact the Rat and see if he can locate the hostage(s) the wool merchant is keeping, and see if we can arrange a rescue.
4)Regardless of if 3 is successful, I think it's time we arranged a quiet assassination of the guy. We won't tolerate this anymore

1-3 sound good, 4 is not. Why are we assassinating this merchant?

[Talvara]

Gather up all our evidence and make the case towards the Duke.

This situation is reaching boiling point. I think plotting an assassination of our own will light the fuse on the situation.
If the Duke wishes this situation to go by without warfare. then he'll have to step in now. I think we can connect the Count to the wool merchant.

ninja Edit:

...
We should see if the Rat can find any dirt linking the merchant and the Count, and ask the prisoner if he knows why he was supposed to scout the land. And, of course, release him once he's finished telling us all he can--he seems harmless enough.
...

I don't know about harmless. he and his fellows tried to fight our rangers. Sure his acts are out of desperation. but we shouldn't release him just yet. Right now he goes into our 'evidence locker' I think

[tryrar]

I was thinking of sending a message to the count with the wool merchant's assassination, but I'll only back my suggestion if it won't spark a war instead.. However, stopping this nonsense once and for all is top priority, so whatever works I'll back it

[Mlamlah]

I think that we should be pursuing legal prosecution of the wool merchant. We have two men who've worked for him to harm us or our people on two seperate occassions. We're actually of better social standing, so i imagine that our word might mean more. We might not have enough evidence to implicate the count, but we have enough to charge a merchant known to be shady.
I approve of getting the rat to dig up more evidence for us, perhaps we should give him a gift or something as thanks?

[Gotdamnmiracle]

Ok, this in unacceptable. This wool merchant has gone too far, so we need to do something about this.

In accordance with the new rule, my suggestions in bold:

1) Give clemency to our new prisoner on the condition that he tells us EVERYTHING that might help us, including anything about the disappearance of his sister.

2)As soon as weather permits, FORTIFY THE BARRACKS AT THE MINES

3) Contact the Rat and see if he can locate the hostage(s) the wool merchant is keeping, and see if we can arrange a rescue.

4)Regardless of if 3 is successful, I think it's time we arranged a quiet assassination of the guy. We won't tolerate this anymore

Organize that assassination. I am good with all of this.

[tryrar]

I'm making a slight amendment to 4):

4a) If we can get enough evidence linking all this to the wool merchant, I say we arrange for him to be quietly arrested and brought before the Duke.

4b)If not, carry on assassinating him as a message to the count