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[notquitethere]

Post-Dariush Analysis
I've done this for the other deaths and Dariush is no exception. Dariush's death is quite possibly the best thing that's happened for us this game. We know that Dariush was scum and unlike the trigger-happy Imiknorris and Nerjin, we've got a lot of information about Dariush.

Dariush's Death
These people led to Dariush's lynch:

zombie urist
Tiruin
Deathsword
Vector


They look the most innocent at this juncture. At this stage, Dariush was voting for NQT, who was earlier in the discussion two votes off being lynched. Make of that what you will.

Dariush's Life
Here are the stats on Dariush.

People that never voted or FOSed Dariush in the whole game:
Nerjin - Scum
Phantom/Hapah - Mason Claimant
TolyK   0v - Scum
Edosurist/ZoomZoll - Troll Town
Urist Imiknorris   0v - Scum
Toaster - ?

People that Dariush voted and FOSed in the whole game:
Captain Ford   4v - Town
TolyK     1fos - Mason
Edosurist/ZoomZoll   3fos - Town
notquitethere   1v 3fos - ?
zombie urist   4 fos - ?
obolisk0430/Vector   1v - ?

People Dariush never voted or FOSed:
Tiruin - Mason Claimant
Nerjin - Scum
Phantom of The Library/Hapah - Mason Claimant
Toaster - ?
Deathsword - Mason Claimaint
Urist Imiknorris - Scum

Conclusions
In the whole game there is one person that stands out in relation to Dariush: Toaster. Everyone other Toaster that wasn't suspicious of Dariush is either a mason-claimaint, scum or TheZoomZoll. Everyone that Dariush never tried to lynch or pour suspicion on is either scum, a mason-claimant or Toaster. These are the facts.

[Tiruin]

PFP - studying at this unholy hour.

0v? Also, Hapah claimed Mason?!

And (mostly) finally, I'm getting what you were aiming at this whole time. Thanks for making it tabulated and with formatting!

And....your vote lies with me, but FoS on Toaster for what reason now?

Still awaiting those questions.

[notquitethere]

Tiruin

I've got a question though, Tiruin, can you give us some solid reasons why we should believe your mason claim?

Why should you, by the way? I put that out because the game was dying at the time. I put that out as hopes to get things rolling - obviously, I didn't state my whole team (because counter-intuitive to the goal, duh) but who I did state was true. Now the fun part is if you'd believe it or not, see my one post on WIFOM'ing scum.

What you've ended up doing is WIFOM'ing Town as well so whichever way you look at it, it was a lousy move.

Why Hapah? And the fact that Dariush is dead means...what? My supposed buddies have been quiet since when?

Hapah because you're claiming he's mason:

Masons: Me, Hapah, DS, TolyK.

Your supposed buddies have been relatively quiet on their purported masonhood

Hey, handsome. If you'd recall there were many other people who have 'consistently lynched town-folk' to use your own words. Using this as a foundation of your case is just wrong - as Vector said, you need to come up with concrete proof and not something as "Oh no, Tiruin's vote was on this person who lynched. He's town! Tiruin is suspicious."

See my latest analysis. I don't really think you're scum. Unvote.

Expound on the TolyK thing more though, quotes would be preferred.

What's there to expound? TolyK was mason, we don't need quotes to prove that. TolyK went up for vote and was scum-hammered. Unless you've got a terrible memory, I don't need quotes to prove that. Toaster's vote was on TolyK when TolyK was scum-hammered. Thus, Toaster is either an incredibly incompetent mason or not a mason at all. Toaster is not an inexperienced player so I don't think he's incompetent. Thus, as TolyK was a mason, Toaster isn't a mason.

0v? Also, Hapah claimed Mason?!

'0v' means 'zero votes'. It's just an artefact from my own notes (I have an excel spreadsheet on this). Hapah didn't claim mason, you claimed mason on his behalf or have you forgot that already?

And (mostly) finally, I'm getting what you were aiming at this whole time. Thanks for making it tabulated and with formatting!

I'm pleased you get it. The Big Point I've been pushing in this game is we should look at who voted for whom. I assume this response is no longer necessary:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Why are you going to analyze a dead man's lynch? And from where are you deriving such...seemingly soon to be presumed valid information?

Are you seriously trying to say we shouldn't look at a dead man's lynch. Are you seriously saying this?

My information is derived from the vote record and can be confirmed by anyone who takes the time to read the thread.

And....your vote lies with me, but FoS on Toaster for what reason now?

In any case, now it's clear that Toaster is genuinely asking for replacement, I'll look into other people until a replacement is found.

He was genuinely asking for a replacement before that. Right now, I'm not even sure he's genuinely asking for a replacement as he's still voting and giving his opinion.

You're quite right. Toaster, you scummy appliance, are you playing or are you not playing?


Vector

. . . NQT, I have a really hard time believing that you're both town-aligned and having trouble figuring out Deathsword's mason claim.  Indeed, the person most interested in whether or not Deathsword would be telling the truth on that particular information should be the final scumbag.

Look I haven't pressured DS and Hapah on these points, and I when the claim was first made I did say to them not to answer me if they thought it would harm town:

Hapah
Question: do you think Tiruin's revelation will help the town team. Is he telling the truth? (If you think telling me whether Tiruin's telling the truth will damage team town, then feel free to ignore this question.)

What do you think about my case against Toaster?

[Vector]

I think that you sound nervous.  You're vote-hopping, you're deflecting, and you keep on apologizing but doing nothing to remedy your actual play.

As far as Toaster goes, my read from the beginning of the game was strongly enough town that I'm willing to sit on it today.  I have no idea what he's doing now, and if killing you doesn't end the game then I'll probably advocate offing him next round (because replacements/lurkers near LYLO == very, very bad, and we've got a lot of space until LYLO).  However, he's not really open to questioning in any case, so I don't see any point in wasting time with him right now.

[Tiruin]

NQT: Memory check & not assumed logic - pass.

But you're missing one thing:

Was that a pressure vote? If so, do you intend it to stay there? If not, what made it stick?

You didn't answer this at all.

[zombie urist]

Vector: Dariush has become significantly less ragey and his insults in general have became more tame. Also he is no longer using goatfucker.

NQT does present some rather strong evidence of Toaster being scum, though since he's up for replace I can't really say anything about it.

[Vector]

. . . Well, that's nice for him, but the pattern is still same-enough, despite different amplitudes.

[Teneb]

NQT:

Le big list

There is an error in that list. Dariush voted me briefly.

Vector: regarding your question on my thoughts on the proceedings, my main suspect is NQT (he seems too friendly, might just be his meta which is why I haven't a vote riding on him yet), with both you and toaster as nulls, and ZU leaning town (but could be more active). Tiruin and Hapah are, of course, mason.

NQT: Analyzing a person's lynch often leads to WIFOM, and is thus avoided.

Vector: How is NQT deflecting? While he has a fixation on lynching Toaster, and indeed keeps making the same mistakes and then apologizing over and over, I don't really see how he is deflecting.

[Vector]

Vector

. . . NQT, I have a really hard time believing that you're both town-aligned and having trouble figuring out Deathsword's mason claim.  Indeed, the person most interested in whether or not Deathsword would be telling the truth on that particular information should be the final scumbag.

Look I haven't pressured DS and Hapah on these points, and I when the claim was first made I did say to them not to answer me if they thought it would harm town:

Hapah
Question: do you think Tiruin's revelation will help the town team. Is he telling the truth? (If you think telling me whether Tiruin's telling the truth will damage team town, then feel free to ignore this question.)

What do you think about my case against Toaster?

Look: I attack him, he defends himself in a pretty jumpy, nervous-sounding way, then he asks me what I think about his case against Toaster.  This is classic deflection.

[notquitethere]

Vector

I think that you sound nervous.  You're vote-hopping, you're deflecting, and you keep on apologizing but doing nothing to remedy your actual play.

Looks like you've already made up your mind about me and now you're looking for more things to pin on me. Asking you a game relevant question isn't deflecting if I also answer your other queries.

As far as Toaster goes, my read from the beginning of the game was strongly enough town that I'm willing to sit on it today.  I have no idea what he's doing now, and if killing you doesn't end the game then I'll probably advocate offing him next round (because replacements/lurkers near LYLO == very, very bad, and we've got a lot of space until LYLO).  However, he's not really open to questioning in any case, so I don't see any point in wasting time with him right now.

I see what you're saying, but really from the arguments I've presented he's the most suspicious player in the game. It doesn't matter who's playing him, if he's scum he's scum.

Tiruin

But you're missing one thing:

Was that a pressure vote? If so, do you intend it to stay there? If not, what made it stick?

You didn't answer this at all.

I did, but you just didn't read it as an answer:

Toaster voted for someone who later turned out to be a mason, so is probably either scum or town. Toaster also voted for Ford for bullshit meta reasons, which has made me consistently suspicious since then. I was pressuring Toaster on the Dariush issue but Dariush isn't the reason why Toaster looks guilty to me.

DS

NQT:

Le big list

There is an error in that list. Dariush voted me briefly.

Point to where this is the case. I've looked over the whole thread and done a search of Dariush's posts.

NQT: Analyzing a person's lynch often leads to WIFOM, and is thus avoided.

A person's lynch is the only concrete evidence in a game. Do you even know what WIFOM means? It's when you speculate about someone's motivations when you have basically no substantial evidence. A person's lynch is substantial evidence. Please tell me if there's a more reliable scum hunting technique than looking at irrefutable facts.

[Vector]

Here's the shape of it: I'm pretty sure it's you, Toaster, or Deathsword, and with you being relatively new and our having so many lynches left, I'm not going to sit here second-guessing myself forever.

I get it.  You're a logician.  You think your type of evidence is best, and under that type of evidence Toaster is most suspicious.  Sure!  On the other hand, I am an old hand at this and I've got to say that if you think the scumteam won't vote itself, bandwagon itself, attack itself viciously just to avoid that kind of analysis, you have another thing coming.  It ends up sliding into WIFOM: "Did they do this because they're town?  Or are they scum trying to look like town?  Or is that just what they want us to think?"

I am not going to unvote you just because you ask nicely and seem naive.  You seem way too worried about being lynched for my taste... and by the way, it's not that I'm looking for more stuff to pin on you, it's that you keep doing scummy crap, so I figure I might as well point it out.  If you're just naive town, then you need to think this game through some more and learn better how to play, and if you're scum... well, I'd never forgive myself if I let you get away with this.

[Teneb]

DS

NQT:

Le big list

There is an error in that list. Dariush voted me briefly.

Point to where this is the case. I've looked over the whole thread and done a search of Dariush's posts.

NQT: Analyzing a person's lynch often leads to WIFOM, and is thus avoided.

A person's lynch is the only concrete evidence in a game. Do you even know what WIFOM means? It's when you speculate about someone's motivations when you have basically no substantial evidence. A person's lynch is substantial evidence. Please tell me if there's a more reliable scum hunting technique than looking at irrefutable facts.

WIFOM, to quote from the definition found at the OP of every BM:

WIFOM - Wine In Front Of Me, the circular reasoning that results from trying to determine the choices of an opponent who acted with full knowledge that his behavior would be subject to scrutiny.

"All right: where is the poison? The battle of wits has begun. It ends when you decide and we both drink, and find out who is right and who is dead."
"But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you. Are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet, or his enemy's?"

The most reliable method of scumhunting is called questioning.

[Hapah]

Glad to see so much activity!

Deathsword and Habah, what do you think of the proceedings?  Who is the last scumbucket?

Fear the Habah.

I'm still sticking with Toaster as the last scum. It doesn't hurt that I had the scumteam as Toaster-Dar in my head (though I've no way to prove that, I don't think I mentioned it anywhere in the thread). It also helps that it's a pretty damn short list at this point. My case was laid out in this post, and while it may be dated I'd still say the information is good. I could peg NQT for runner-up, but I'm really getting more of a new-player read from him than anything, really.

NQT:

I said he was most likely scum, or more accurately, he was a strong candidate for being scum. Y'all were on track to lynching him so he didn't need my bandwagon vote. -snip-

Bit of advice, though I don't know who will agree with me. Don't be afraid to vote someone that you think is scum, even if it looks sorta like a bandwagon. As long as you can back up your vote with reasons, you should press on with the vote instead of leaving things to chance. It gives a lot more information than being non-committal (FYI, being non-committal is one of my major flaws as a player. I'm working on it, honest!)

-snip-
They look the most innocent at this juncture. At this stage, Dariush was voting for NQT, who was earlier in the discussion two votes off being lynched. Make of that what you will.

Could you link me to where he voted you, please?

[notquitethere]

Sure.

[Vector]

Leafsnail: votecount, please.