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[Aqizzar]

For the second time in about four months, my desktop computer has suffered a harddrive crash.  With a four month old harddrive.  And an uninterruptable power supply.  Needless to say, I'm a little steamed and have had and will have again soon some very stern words with my landlord.

In the meantime, I have a PC that needs fixing, and I fear it's condition has worsened.

The best theory I could come up with is that the computer's power box had been permanently damaged from being plugged into the main before getting the UPS, and had somehow continued to deteriorate itself or some other part under normal operation.  I bought a replacement power supply from my first theory, a Coolmaster GX 650w (the old one being a Coolmax 600w), because I know Coolmaster is supposed to be a good brand.

Possibly related, the harddrive that I bought to replace the last one doesn't actually fit anywhere in the case.  After buying it, I had it sitting on a block of wood on the bottom of the box.  It refused to boot if the drive wasn't in contact with the case metal, or something I'm not a damn electrician so I'm operating on observation here.

One thing I learned from this is that the computer will actually start without a harddrive present (that it would acknolwedge anyway), and only asks that one be plugged in.  Working on it now, I have found a way to properly screw it in, but it isn't actually resting on anything, just hangs there bolted by it's side screws.  I don't think this matters because of the newest issue.

With both the new power supply and the old one, with the harddrive plugged in and unplugged, with the UPS between the system and the main and without the UPS, the box refuses to start at all now.  When the power button is pressed, the system will start up for about half a second and then shut off for a few and then repeat until I unplug it.

At this point, it seems to be a motherboard problem, since that's the only thing actually being powered on.  But I really have no idea.  I would certainly like to recover that drive if it can be, and I'm getting damn tired of spending money on this thing.  I'm also beyond pissed that the exact same problem happened again with a surge protector, which means even a whole new computer might wind up with the same problem a few months down the road.  Once power problems are bypassing a UPS, I think anything might be fair game.

So yeah, anybody who knows anything about computer wiring please speak up and give me some ideas on what to do with this pile of almost-new parts.

EDIT: I'm also wondering if the UPS itself might be the problem.  It makes a buzzing noise whenever my external drive's adapter is plugged into it, and I noticed that my router keeps reseting every few days even though it was plugged into the UPS too.

[ToonyMan]

My laptop I use for school is on the verge of dying, for really stupid reasons.


• The keyboard is busted, letters don't register or go off without my consent so unless I bring another USB one or use the on-screen keyboard I'm screwed.
• My security key has apparently vanished so I can't update software or change settings.
• The connection to my campus wi-fi has been very wonky and wasn't working the last few weeks.
  

Altogether it really sucks and is effectively useless.

EDIT:
also broken formatting

EDITX2:
And being able to read thread topics apparently, hours later.

[Tellemurius]

well at this point i think its just the mobo that took a shit and not the hard drive, do you hear beeps or does the BIOS flashes.

[Mullet Master]

Question #1 ) Did you build this computer yourself?
Question #2) Have you tried using the computer at a different place? Maybe a friends house ? This would effectively isolate whether the buildings power supply is a problem. The fact that the hard drive has to touch the case to work is scary, to say the least
Question #3) Do you have a voltmeter?
Question #4) Do you live in the US? Can you find one of these from a local source? They are certainly much cheaper than a new power supply or UPS. http://www.harborfreight.com/electric-receptacle-tester-32906.html I am not an electrician, and do not advocate anyone to pretend to be one. But faulty outlets at home are bad news... and really a computer is the least of the worry. You don't want to get shocked by bad house wiring, or have something burn up.
 

[Aqizzar]

well at this point i think its just the mobo that took a shit and not the hard drive, do you hear beeps or does the BIOS flashes.

It doesn't power on long enough for me to see anything.  It's enough to tell the screen that it's receiving something, but it doesn't really turn on.

Checklist

#1) Technically yes, in that I installed the graphics card myself.  The 600w power supply was also not original, but it was installed at the Fry's service center when I bought it.  After the original harddrive crashed a few months ago, I "installed" the new one myself, hence the whole "sitting on a wood block because it didn't fit" aspect.

#2) I bought the computer in March of 2011, and it ran for over a year with no problems.  The first drive crash was about a month after I moved into my current apartment.

#3) I do, but I don't know anywhere near enough about wiring and eletricity to do anything useful with it.  I'm pretty damn sure the power here is the original cause of the problem.  I can see the lights flicker sometimes, bulbs burn out in months, and I get static shocks from the stove.  I've asked the landlord to have an electrician look at the wiring, but I have to arrange a time and I'll bet a month's rent he'll hang around just long enough to say everything is fine.

I feel the most important aspect is that I've had a UPS between the computer and the outlet for the last four months, and this happened again.  Either something is wrong inside the computer itself, or the UPS is faulty, or the power here is so bad it can fry stuff through a surge protector.  Whatever the case, I'm in over my head and seriously concerned.

[Mullet Master]

#3) I do, but I don't know anywhere near enough about wiring and eletricity to do anything useful with it.  I'm pretty damn sure the power here is the original cause of the problem.  I can see the lights flicker sometimes, bulbs burn out in months, and I get static shocks from the stove.  I've asked the landlord to have an electrician look at the wiring, but I have to arrange a time and I'll bet a month's rent he'll hang around just long enough to say everything is fine.

Electricians are required to have licenses, and the majority of them are professional enough not to leave you in an unsafe situation. It is more money for them to fix the problem rather than ignore it, and the landlord is not going to call an electrician in just to send him home after a five minute inspection. In most areas, they bill out $100 minimum/1hour(which your landlord is responsible for).

I wouldn't plug in any electrical device you truly value until it gets looked at. It's inconvenient, but getting shocked is no fun.

[Tellemurius]

ok so mobo is toasted probably along with the processor too so you will have to buy a new computer but transferring data from the old hard drive is easy and i can help with that. For the electrical problems, grab one of these at your nearest hardware store (home depot, lowes) http://www.amazon.com/Gardner-GFI-501A-Receptacle-Circuit-Analyzer/dp/B00004WLJM. Its not a electrician but its a simple way to tell if you got some shitty wiring (my best bet and from the sounds of it you got some shitty grounding)

[Aqizzar]

Its not a electrician but its a simple way to tell if you got some shitty wiring (my best bet and from the sounds of it you got some shitty grounding)

Speaking of which, would that have anything to do with that "harddrive has to be touching the case" aspect?  I figured that was normal, why else would it be so strongly recommended that you properly bolt them in.  Then again, I could honestly never pin down whether it was supposed to be in contact or not, it seemed to be one or the other at times or even just being in a certain position.  Which with electricity, is never a good sign.

[Tellemurius]

Its not a electrician but its a simple way to tell if you got some shitty wiring (my best bet and from the sounds of it you got some shitty grounding)

Speaking of which, would that have anything to do with that "harddrive has to be touching the case" aspect?  I figured that was normal, why else would it be so strongly recommended that you properly bolt them in.  Then again, I could honestly never pin down whether it was supposed to be in contact or not, it seemed to be one or the other at times or even just being in a certain position.  Which with electricity, is never a good sign.

you bolt them in for the vibration protection as the case would absorb it, the PSU handles all the grounding in a computer.

[DangerDwarf]

Also check whether the actual data cable to the harddrive is still in good condition. I had a issue with a pc at work where it wouldn't boot, then when you move the cable around a bit and push it deeper into the sockets the harddrive would get detected again. This is probably bad for the drive and replacing the cable solved the problem for me.

[Tellemurius]

Also check whether the actual data cable to the harddrive is still in good condition. I had a issue with a pc at work where it wouldn't boot, then when you move the cable around a bit and push it deeper into the sockets the harddrive would get detected again. This is probably bad for the drive and replacing the cable solved the problem for me.

wow thats the first time i ever heard of a bad sata cable, did someone just sat there and wiggle the shit out of it?

[Jimmy]

With the assumption everything is wired correctly we're troubleshooting along the flow of power here. First check the power from the wall is working. Plug a lamp or something into the one you're using for your PC. Then try a new power cord from the wall into the computer, often they have universal C13/C14 connections for the cords and I'll bet you've got a spare around if you're like me. This'll probably fail but you'd kick yourself if that was all it was. After this we get into the guts of the computer itself.

When the computer doesn't start at all, you're probably looking at a few things that could be wrong. First the power supply, then the motherboard. The hard drive is a non-issue right now if you can't get anything to come on your screen (by the way, I'm sure you've checked your screen isn't broken or at fault here). Every motherboard has a built-in operating system (BIOS) that's installed in the factory. Even when there's no hard drive attached, you can still power on a PC and get to a screen that will let you enter commands. If you can't reach the BIOS screen, it's a physical problem with power and you can disregard the hard drive as a problem for now.

If you have an old computer around you can mix and match parts together to see if you can isolate the source of the fault. Even ask a few friends if they have a crappy PC in their garage that still works. I have a bare bones box in my shed which I keep as a backup in case my rig bites it.

With a second PC, assuming there's no overt compatibility issues, I'd be doing the following as a diagnosis.

1. Replace second PCs power supply unit (PSU) with the one from your current system. It's a fairly simple process, you just connect the wires. PSUs are built with universal connections that use a certain number of pins per hole. It's really impossible to screw up plugging in a PSU as the wires are universal and will only fit into holes they are designed for, it just takes a lot of fiddling with wires that refuse to bend the way you want. If you can plug in your monitor to your computer, you can plug in a PSU.

If second PC doesn't turn on with the PSU installed from your current system you know the PSU is fried. Throw it in the garbage at this point since it'll probably be easier to buy a new one. If the second PC turns on, the PSU is fine and it's likely a motherboard issue. Important to note here is that some PSUs will have a big obvious fuse right near where the power cord connects into your PC. Check this fuse isn't burnt out, because if it is you might have just blown it in a surge and it'll probably cost fifty cents to replace. This might save you hundreds if the problem is this simple. Do not look at the blown fuse, realize you have a metal screw the same size, and try to use that instead of going down to the shop and buying a new one. Doing this would be dangerous, irresponsible and idiotic and I most certainly would never have attempted this myself and turned a cheap problem into an expensive one.

2. Connect the PSU from the second unit into your system and try turning it on. Again, PSU has universal connections, trust me, you can do it.

If the system doesn't turn on, you probably have a fried motherboard. At this point expect things to get expensive. A motherboard replacement might also mean a new central processing unit (CPU) too, as well as a new operating system if you're using Windows (new motherboard means new computer to Windows, which means buying a new license). Sorry to say it, but this might mean it's better to just buy a new computer here. If you want some recommendations for parts in a certain price range I'd be happy to make suggestions.

*Disclaimer: I am not a professional IT consultant and my experience comes from being self taught.

[Tellemurius]

he has already done all of that and i gave him the task to buy a fault checker instead of blowing up another appliance.

[Sensei]

Sounds like a lot more than a hard drive is wrong, but if you want to know whether your data is safe the first thing I'd recommend you do is plug your HDD into a friend's computer.

[Zyxl]

Around the turn of the century I actually had some relevant IT certifications and briefly worked IT.

Jimmy has the right idea, testing with known good parts one by one. If the fuse on the PSU was blown it wouldn't boot at all.

I've seen a cyclic reboot like that before with:
-Power short. Most probable. Either a connection is loose or something is shorting into the case. ANY connection. Very probable with you ratting around in the case plugging and unplugging things.
   -First time I saw this was with a damaged USB port. Can have an internal short, or be shorted into the case.
   -Loose card in a PCI slot. Try booting without any expansion cards.
   -Loose or bad RAM module. Try without the RAM and you should at least get some error beeps.
   -Loose cable connection. Check all of them.
   -Shorting from the motherboard itself into the case. Could be as simple as a screw you dropped into the case. You might consider removing it and trying to boot on an insulated surface outside the case.
   -Worst case scenario: Unplug EVERYTHING but the CPU fan. All drives, cards (incl. RAM), everything everything. Try to at least get some error beeps.
-Bad BIOS, firmware, drivers. Less likely, as you have not updated or changed these lately. A bad driver won't reboot the system until after POST. Try resetting the CMOS.
-Bad/blown capacitors. Could be a lemon, or you could have actually damaged something with a bad PSU.