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[misko27]

Self Explanatory. Feminism today.
RULES.
1. No personal insults. If I see people attacking characters, there will be trouble.
2. No trolling. If you have a radical view, you better fecking have some stuff to back it up with.
3. Civilty is required.
4. I wil lock this thread if things get out of hand. Yes, yes I will.
5. Saying how everyone else is wrong, and leaving it as that is not a argument.
6. Any mention of Jabba the Hutt, Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin, Ludwig von Beethoven, and Elmo is Strictly prohibited.
7. I am neutral. No dragging me into anything. If and when this thread is locked and bans are handed out, I ain't goign down with the ship.
 
*sigh* The day and age when a simple shrubber can't walk down the general forums putting up threads without having to put up a rule list is long gone.
 
Now where was the argument?

I would like to point out that men get raped too, and some evidence suggests the statistics are somewhat underappreciative of just how much men get raped. It's a really horrible thing to happen to anyone, and personally i'm a huge opponent of victim shaming, which i view as a form of oppressing women (or men for that matter). It says a lot that men find it *even harder* to talk about than women do, the stigma against a man who has been raped is not insignificant, and it's not something we talk about at all, which i feel further cements the difficulty men have with it. Men get raped too, we should talk about it, the societal habit of ignoring it is a way men get oppressed. Though the fucked up double sided stigma against rape oppresses women too.

Here we go! And, FIGHT DISCUSS.

A few questions about the thread to start:
1.) What's the verdict on trigger warnings? Should we add them if we're describing something graphic, or should the whole thread be considered unsafe for people that are easily triggered. If it's the latter, you may want to add that to the first post.
2.) Are there any common grounds that participants should adhere to or be familiar with? Such as privilege theory, rape culture, intersectionalism, cissexism?
3.) How broad is this thread? Does it pertain to issues related to (cis)sexism alone? Does it encompass any sort of privilege? Or is everything game as long as you feel it doesn't deviate too much?
4.) Thoughts on tone arguments? Obviously, being disruptive is not tolerable, but how do you handle people using 'I don't like the tone of your post' to dismiss valid points?

1) Although the physical description of rape should never have to come up, one should probably put trigger warnings in if something graphic is somehow relevant.
2) Uh, I don't know. I'm not entirely clear on whether that can or should be important. Of course, if soemone brings up some refuted theory or bullshit statistics, I'm going to have a problem with it, but as long as it isn't too out there, I suppose your fine.
3) Should probably be limited to sexual equality, the ideologies and movements thereof andeevidence, proof, or otehr facts related to which. If the topic moves somewhere that keeps with the tone I'll allow it.
4) Well, if they are getting insulting or anythign like that I will stop them, but other then that there really is no tone that should be unacceptable.
 
Remember guys, this isn't the minecraft forums. Y'all are civilized.

[Graknorke]

Rule 6 confuses me.
But okay.

[kaijyuu]

My only real complaint toward "feminism of today" is the name. I'd prefer something like "equalism" or something, so it's clear we're after gender equality. Double standards negatively affect women in 99.9% of cases anyway, and it will more clearly highly the problem with men's rights activists (removing one of their pathetic excuses that feminism only supports women, and give the few valid men's rights issues a more solid place).

[Helgoland]

I live in the city of Ludwig van Beethoven and introduce myself as a stalinist. (It makes for some interesting conversations.)

Otherwise, PTW.

[Virex]

A few questions about the thread rules to start:
1.) What's the verdict on trigger warnings? Should we add them if we're describing something graphic, or should the whole thread be considered unsafe for people that are easily triggered. If it's the latter, you may want to add that to the first post.
2.) Are there any common grounds that participants should adhere to or be familiar with? Such as privilege theory, rape culture, intersectionalism, cissexism?
3.) How broad is this thread? Does it pertain to issues related to (cis)sexism alone? Does it encompass any sort of privilege? Or is everything game as long as you feel it doesn't deviate too much?
4.) Thoughts on tone arguments? Obviously, being disruptive is not tolerable, but how do you handle people using 'I don't like the tone of your post' to dismiss valid points?


Also, on the off-chance that I'm starting an intersite flame war, I think that the following links should be mandatory reading to at least get people up to specs with the core tenets of most feminist movements:
Rape culture, or why rape victims aren't being taken serious, men have so much problems admitting they have been raped even to themselves, and things like date rape or rape of a person under influence aren't recognized as such by a lot of people.
What is sexism? on why many feminists get pissed if you call prejudice against men sexism, and analogously racism 101 on why non-caucassians get pissed when you talk about reverse-racism, though the later may be only partially related to this thread, depending on the scope.
Intersecionalism 101, on why the experiences of a black gay man, a black gay woman, a white straight woman and a bucket of cicadas all differ from each other.
What about the menz? about how men get shafted by their own privilege.

[Hiiri]

Sure, I'd defend feminism in any country in which women don't have a right to vote (Edit: Or in any democratic country with perverted male-female ratio.. say.. future china?). In western democracies it falls into conspiratorial and/or victimization territory.

Right to vote?!

That's the only thing you think it's about?

I don't want to jump on anybody but let me get this straight: Give women right to vote and we are all equal, is that what you are saying? Let's talk about Saudi Arabia, women are given the first chance to vote already. So, that makes everything fine I suppose.

If you're a woman in Saudi Arabia and vote for Islamic fundamentalist, you're not oppressed, you're an idiot.

[Helgoland]

Free elections in Saudi-Arabia would be big news to me...

[Hiiri]

Free elections in Saudi-Arabia would be big news to me...

It was a reply to another thread.

[Forums User Meat Wizard]

If you're a woman in Saudi Arabia and vote for Islamic fundamentalist, you're not oppressed, you're an idiot.

You do realise that Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy and the only public positions available for people to vote into are advisory and local bodies, with very little actual power and outright no power at all to institute national change? It's still against the law for a woman in Saudi Arabia to drive or literally do anything in public without the escort or permission of a male family member.

[MrWiggles]

So what about the Mens Right Movement?

[Forums User Meat Wizard]

Start your own thread on it if you want, it'd be the funniest thing I'd have read in a while.

[misko27]

A few questions about the thread to start:
1.) What's the verdict on trigger warnings? Should we add them if we're describing something graphic, or should the whole thread be considered unsafe for people that are easily triggered. If it's the latter, you may want to add that to the first post.
2.) Are there any common grounds that participants should adhere to or be familiar with? Such as privilege theory, rape culture, intersectionalism, cissexism?
3.) How broad is this thread? Does it pertain to issues related to (cis)sexism alone? Does it encompass any sort of privilege? Or is everything game as long as you feel it doesn't deviate too much?
4.) Thoughts on tone arguments? Obviously, being disruptive is not tolerable, but how do you handle people using 'I don't like the tone of your post' to dismiss valid points?

1) Although the physical description of rape should never have to come up, one should probably put trigger warnings in if something graphic is somehow relevant.
2) Uh, I don't know. I'm not entirely clear on whether that can or should be important. Of course, if soemone brings up some refuted theory or bullshit statistics, I'm going to have a problem with it, but as long as it isn't too out there, I suppose your fine.
3) Should probably be limited to sexual equality, the ideologies and movements thereof andeevidence, proof, or otehr facts related to which. If the topic moves somewhere that keeps with the tone I'll allow it.
4) Well, if they are getting insulting or anythign like that I will stop them, but other then that there really is no tone that should be unacceptable.
 
Remember guys, this isn't the minecraft forums. Y'all are civilized.

[TheFryingWeegee]

My only real complaint toward "feminism of today" is the name. I'd prefer something like "equalism" or something, so it's clear we're after gender equality. Double standards negatively affect women in 99.9% of cases anyway, and it will more clearly highly the problem with men's rights activists (removing one of their pathetic excuses that feminism only supports women, and give the few valid men's rights issues a more solid place).

Double Standards against men:
Conscription, Affirmative Action, title 9, VAWA, Conscription, War deaths, disproportionate male suicide rate, disproportionate male homelessness rate, female centric education, female centric society, biased family courts, male custody issues, abortion, alimony
Affirmative Action, Abortions, Family Courts, alimony, biased family courts, male custody issues, Title 9, VAWA, and to some extent disproportionate male homelessness rate are all caused by feminism.

I doubt that I would be unable to disprove any female double standards that you present me with.
Pay gap- Actually not real. Even if it was real you have to look at the fact that women on average live 5 years longer than men in most countries. Would you rather be 75 cents to a dollar poorer, but getting to live 5 years longer?
And most double standards aid women. They are paid as much as male soldiers in war without having to fight. They can hit men but men can't hit them, or they risk being attacked themselves.

(removing one of their pathetic excuses that feminism only supports women, and give the few valid men's rights issues a more solid place).

Well, by definition, feminism is a group that promotes and campaigns for women.
Actions do speak louder than words, and feminism has caused a lot of problems that men face. Even suffragetes have been anti male from the start. Bashing male civilians and police, shaming men into joining the military during WW1, and causing horrific riots.

[MrWiggles]

Start your own thread on it if you want, it'd be the funniest thing I'd have read in a while.

Why would it be funny?

[TheFryingWeegee]

If you're a woman in Saudi Arabia and vote for Islamic fundamentalist, you're not oppressed, you're an idiot.

You do realise that Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy and the only public positions available for people to vote into are advisory and local bodies, with very little actual power and outright no power at all to institute national change? It's still against the law for a woman in Saudi Arabia to drive or literally do anything in public without the escort or permission of a male family member.

If a war is started in Saudi Arabia, guess who will be dying for the cause? Not the women. The law is there so women are safer. It is there to protect them. It is also there to protect society. Look at the west, women go out, get laid, and then abort the baby. But in the process, dangerous STD's are spread, and in the long term, the fertility rate of entire countries is decreased. Besides, women always go on about rape and how it is dangerous, so not going out alone sounds like a much smarter solution than giving women the power to accuse anyone they want with no or little evidence.